Date
1 - 20 of 22
New X-rays added
|
Carly
Quest had New x-rays today, which I've uploaded. They show rotation, gas pocket in hoof wall and very long toes. Trimmer is coming as soon as she can to take toes back. I'll try get hoof photos this evening.
-- Carly Nottinghamshire, UK, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carly%20and%20Quest https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=282557 |
|
|
|
Thanks, Carly! Could you also update her case history, please? I spent a fair amount of time reviewing it and then noticed in your posts she’s on ertugliflozin which, as you know, affects her management. I understand your concern about free feeding and her weight but excess weight does not cause insulin resistance; instead it’s a likely symptom. Her breed predisposes her to insulin resistance. You can manage it so it’s not as problematic, first with diet and then, if still necessary, with drugs. Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response July 2012
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
Martha and Logo |
|
|
|
Carly
Sorry, I've done it now. I always struggle to find the place to upload the case history and get very frustrated. I realised I could click on my signature, but I wondered if there could be a prominent link on the wiki? I'm sure it's there, but I just couldn't find it.
I am feeding her a similar quantity, but have increased the speedibeet. I soak 1/3 of her nets (2.8 kg) and feed the rest unsoaked. She's not lost any fat, despite 5 weeks with no grass and the emergency diet - which was pretty much what I was feeding her in the first place (plus grass). Bloods were taken today so I'll be curious to see what insulin is - but I'm not sure if she'll run all the tests I wanted, and assumed she would (she's received the info from Dr Kellon). I got distracted by chasing chickens away so wasn't there when she did the bloods. -- Carly Nottinghamshire, UK, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carly%20and%20Quest https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=282557 |
|
|
|
Your signature is the best place to find your way in. Other links might take you to the group photo album site but then you’d need to search for however you labeled yours. You might know it but the rest of us won’t and, if you’re at all like me, you might not remember how you labeled it.
I just finished going back through all your posts! Now I have a better understanding of the progression since you joined. I’m curious about the new bloods as well and I hope the vet paid attention to your request. I know what it’s like to chase chickens! -- Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response July 2012
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
Martha and Logo |
|
|
|
Sherry Morse
Hi Carly, I don't see any changes in her trim since the last x-rays - toes still too long, broken back pastern angle, etc. If you could get a set of hoof pictures up as outlined in the Wiki and your trimmer is willing to work from mark ups that might help with making Quest feel more comfortable.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
|
|
|
Carly
Thanks Martha, and sorry about all my posts!
-- Carly Nottinghamshire, UK, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carly%20and%20Quest https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=282557 |
|
|
|
Carly
She had a trim 3 Jan and the trimmer took her toe back as much as she felt she could. It's grown loads though. She can't come until 25th Jan - should I stop jiaogulan?
She had been working on the hoof pastern angle and it was changing. I tried again to get hoof pictures tonight, but failed. I'm just going to need to take her out on the concrete to do them properly. She's not very tolerant of her hooves being lifted at the moment. -- Carly Nottinghamshire, UK, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carly%20and%20Quest https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=282557 |
|
|
|
Carly, if you can get your hoof photos uploaded and put in a request, you might be able to get a set of markups to guide your trimmer by the next appointment. Your trimmer might be surprised at how much farther the toe can and should go back. They will be invaluable for subsequent trims, too, because you can refer back to them over and over until you see the hoof form changing.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki#Photos-and-Hoof-Evaluation-Help -- Kirsten and Shaku (EMS + PPID) and Snickers (EMS) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album Snickers' Case History Snickers' Photo Album |
|
|
|
Carly
I've done my best with some photos with her standing just on the mats. Only got Lateral/medial and dorsal and there's hay in the way. I couldn't get any of sole as she walked away - she's very sore at the moment and she's had lots of people fiddling with hoof boots and xrays. I really need another person to help hold/reward/distract her or get photos while I hold her foot.
I've uploaded these but assume they're not good enough to be useful? -- Carly Nottinghamshire, UK, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carly%20and%20Quest https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=282557 |
|
|
|
Those are great photos and can definitely be used. I think you should try to get sole shots, too, because you'll get a lot more info in your markups. Once you have them, start a new message thread with "Markups" in the subject line to notify us, and we'll get them in the queue.
-- Kirsten and Shaku (EMS + PPID) and Snickers (EMS) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album Snickers' Case History Snickers' Photo Album |
|
|
|
Instead of the LF medial, can you also take a lateral with the cannon bone?
-- Kirsten and Shaku (EMS + PPID) and Snickers (EMS) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album Snickers' Case History Snickers' Photo Album |
|
|
|
Carly
Okay I'll try when I can get some help. She was getting fidgety and I couldn't get her repositioned or get on lateral side so did what I could. My yard owner may be able to help this evening.
-- Carly Nottinghamshire, UK, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carly%20and%20Quest https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=282557 |
|
|
|
Carly
Blood test results back - she didn't do all I wanted, but insulin now 25! (Was 80 something). Adipodectin (sp) has gone down though - was 8.2, now 5.5. Glucose 5.7 (was 7.1).
I'll update CH later. Very happy about the insulin drop but curious about adipodectin, will need to read up. -- Carly Nottinghamshire, UK, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carly%20and%20Quest https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=282557 |
|
|
|
Sherry Morse
Hi Carly, Adiponectin is used in the UK and the EU. Adiponectin helps regulate glucose and fat burning, and maintain insulin sensitivity. Low levels are associated with EMS. It has come to be preferred over leptin because it is not influenced by things like weight or exercise, and also because it was the only factor other than insulin levels that predicted laminitis risk.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
|
|
|
Adiponectin is a hormone produced by fat that is lower in EMS horses so dropping isn't a good thing but I think it's still low normal.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com BOGO 2 for 1 Course Sale Through End of January |
|
|
|
Carly
Thanks Sherry.
I didn't have anyone to help with photos. I thought I could try soles but she's hating her feet being lifted so it was a disaster. She kept snatching it and walking away getting it covered in more shavings, and got really annoyed with me. I've uploaded some photos but I don't think they'll be usable for a mark up. They give some information about her heels and frogs though so I thought it worth uploading. It's maybe worth saying she hyperflexes so her fetlocks drop a lot in movement. Keeping some heel helps her be more comfortable. But in general she has fairly weak hooves/cushion etc, not helped by restricted movement so the trimmer has been improving things from how they were. -- Carly Nottinghamshire, UK, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carly%20and%20Quest https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=282557 |
|
|
|
Carly
Would there be any reason for it dropping, or is it a negligible change?
The vet said it meant I need to give her less food. I'm not going to - particularly given your guidance on diet while on ertugliflozin. -- Carly Nottinghamshire, UK, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carly%20and%20Quest https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=282557 |
|
|
|
I'm not sure why it would drop but the insulin is by far more important.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com BOGO 2 for 1 Course Sale Through End of January |
|
|
|
Hi Carly,
I did notice the the laterals that her fetlocks look 'dropped' on the fronts but then wondered if my eyes were misinterpretating things, so interesting that you mention that. Her heels are underrun, despite being left high, so getting them pushed back under her by shortening the toes might help her feel more comfortable. We still need a left front lateral photo, showing the cannon bone, please. When you are ready, make sure to start a new topic requesting markups so this doesn't get overlooked. Great! Her insulin has come down! Any hoof pain she's experiencing now is not laminitis. It could be the aftereffects of laminitis, or trim issues, or abscesses (there are gas pockets on her recent rads), or cold weather induced vasoconstriction (aka "winter laminitis"). -- Kirsten and Shaku (EMS + PPID) and Snickers (EMS) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album Snickers' Case History Snickers' Photo Album |
|
|
|
Carly
Thanks Kirsten. If I have the lateral LF will the rest be okay for a mark up even with the rubbish sole pics?
I'm really confused by what is or isn't laminitis and what's actually going on in her hooves, I can't get my head around it all. If metabolic laminitis is not inflammatory (so '-itis' is technically incorrect?), what is going on - constricted blood vessels? Then this can cause Laminae to get damaged and detach from wall, so hoof rotates etc. I thought the gas pocket meant a gap where the laminae had detached - could it actually be an abscess? Or both- an abscess forming where a gap formed from laminae detaching? If the pain is due to the gas pocket (either damaged laminae) is that not laminitic pain? And does the rotation cause pain? The tip of her pedal bone is apparently inflamed - is that painful/laminitis? She's very sensitive on her soles at the moment. Sorry my questions don't make sense, I just don't understand though I feel I've read as much as I can. When she's trimmed, should she be relatively pain free? If there's no abscess. -- Carly Nottinghamshire, UK, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carly%20and%20Quest https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=282557 |
|
|