Omegatin


Anette
 

Has anyone used Omegatin by Kent? I searched files and there was nothing.So far I've found that it has 13.5% starch.
Also what about SmartPak SmartPituitary pellets?
--
Anette and Superman (Jaywalker in heaven)
Boomer, NC
Sep.9 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anette%20and%20Jaywalker
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265991


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Anette,

The Omegatin (both supplement and feed) are not suitable for IR/PPID horses - that starch level would blow the feet off an IR horse as we recommend an upper starch limit of 4%.

The SmartPituitary pellets contain chaste berry, which is contra-indicated if a horse is on pergolide as the latest research indicates it can block the effects of the pergolide.

Why are you looking at these products?

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


morrisjennamarie@...
 

I’m not sure what you’re wanting to accomplish by feeding but if it’s for the omega fatty acids I like the Contribute Omega 3 so far. My horses weren’t too sure about the taste at first but now they tolerate it lol. I’m pretty sure there’s no starch and it’s only $70 for 128 days worth. The makers also have a ton of articles and resources. 
--
Jenna
Texas
Member since Aug. 2022


Anette
 

Thank you for the information . I am aware about the chastetree berry (used to give it but stopped), but a friend who has two Rockies with cushings feeds it and they are at a good weight now and were underweight before. Superman is still 769lbs . the amount of oats has been decreased and the Timothy cubes increased. So I'm looking for ways to put weight on him. I also found out that the vet told my manager that he didn't know why I'm giving him Prascend because he doesn't have cushings. Needless to say ,I'm questiong everything right now and am disheartened :( 
-- 
Anette and Superman (Jaywalker in heaven)
Boomer, NC
Sep.9 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anette%20and%20Jaywalker
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265991


Anette
 

I'm trying to put weight on Superman. 
--
Anette and Superman (Jaywalker in heaven)
Boomer, NC
Sep.9 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anette%20and%20Jaywalker
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265991


Trisha DePietro
 

Hi Anette. I reviewed your case history. It appears that during the seasonal rise October 2021- you have recorded an ACTH of 68.1. Then in February of 2022 you started a 1/2 mg of prascend...was there something, at that time, that you and your vet saw that caused you to start  Prascend? 

As far as putting weight ON... your body index score is "moderately thin"....Your "ideal" weight you listed was 950 for 15.3 horse. he's at 769 right now. It looks like you would like him to gain almost 200 pounds ( 181 to be exact)...I can't really tell from your case history how much hay and concentrate your are feeding per day....if your ideal weight is 950...then you should be feeding 19 pounds per day of hay+ carrier ( whatever you are using for to get the supplements in)... When using the Timothy Balanced cubes...remember it is a 3:4 ratio...so for every 3 pounds of cubes ( dry) you feed it replaces approximately  4 pounds of hay. If he were my horse, I would relook at the body condition score, and relook at how much he is being given....is he still getting a free choice hay? 

As far as the barn manager and the vet talking about you and your horse. IGNORE them, that's unprofessional and not helpful. I would go back to basics and ensure he is getting the accurate amount of feed, weighed per day that he should be getting for the goal of 950 lbs....if he's not, then thats where you start. Don't doubt yourself, just stick to the program and double check what he is being fed. Hope this helps. Hang in there.
--
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder


Anette
 

Hello Trisha,
         At the time of the test in October I didn't realize it was the seasonal rise. He was started on Prascend because he had been showing the beginning signs of Cushings for two years. He was a stud at the time and not one to get a heavy winter coat even though he was outside 24/7 . he started taking longer than the others to shed,still does and had to be clipped this spring. He was gelded and weaned off two meals a day to one to match his herd mates. when he lost weight he went back to two meals a day. The vet hasn't been very helpful with this,at that time even though the test results were good he agreed to give a prescription. He is now getting a whole pill once a day as was suggested to me here to see if it would help with the weight. Since his test results were good from the last one I'm looking at his diet again.  
       He currently is on pasture 24/7 with free choice hay. The hay and pasture are not top notch and so far he hasn't shown signs of being laminitc . The hay was tested and he gets Mad Barn Amino Trace+. The Tim cubes, beet shreds (s,r,s),vitamins,etc are all mixed together and he eats it fine. His total ration is 5lbs in a.m and 51/4 lbs in the p.m . If Tim cubes are like feeding hay do they count towards the 5 lb at time feed limit? Horses eat their grain then go eat hay or grass so? If he needs a third meal it can be done but not easily,however seperating him to eat is not a problem to ensure he gets his full ration.
   It did surprise me that the vet said that and even more that my manager didnt tell me. I am trying to manage all this from another state. I can say do this,that or the other but can only trust that it's getting done properly.
 I appreciate your help with this. 
--
Anette and Superman (Jaywalker in heaven)
Boomer, NC
Sep.9 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anette%20and%20Jaywalker
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265991


Sherry Morse
 

Anette,

A horse with an ideal weight of 950lbs should be eating 19lbs a day (2% of body weight).  Not counting whatever pasture and hay he's eating (which you'd have to estimate as it's free choice) he's a good amount short of the amount needed to maintain that weight.  If you feel he needs more weight you should start to increase his total intake per day not necessarily add a different supplement that he may or may not actually need..  

Any of the Timothy Balance Cubes fed would count towards the amount fed per day.  Not sure where you got the 5lbs per feeding number. Can you elaborate on that?





Anette
 

Hi Sherry,
      The five pounds is coming from the rule of thumb that you shouldn't feed a horse more than five pounds of grain at a time. Which I realized as I wrote , that it was for GRAIN, not a hay substitute or beet shreds. So would it be safe to feed more Timothy cubes at a time to increase is hay intake?
--
Anette and Superman (Jaywalker in heaven)
Boomer, NC
Sep.9 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anette%20and%20Jaywalker
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265991


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Anette,

We generally see horses (depending on weight of course) being fed 8 - 10lbs of hay at a time so that 5lb rule does not apply.  




Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

What are his current ACTH and insulin (later than June)? Late in life castration, really anytime after sexual maturity, can have significant effects on weight and attitude. I would start him on Jiaogulan as an adaptogen and 300 mg DHEA to support peripheral testosterone production. Just use human pills. It may also be that he needs more soaked meals but if this coincided with castration I would start there.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001
The first step to wisdom is "I don't know."


Anette
 

Hello Dr.Kellon
     Superman was tested last in June ( 6.17.2022) in the afternoon. Insulin-25.24ulU , ACTH-17.3pg/mL , Leptin-5.60ng/mL
He was gelded 11.19.2019. seven months afterward he weighed 902lbs. ,six months later he weighed 834lbs. Currently he 769lbs. via a weigh tape.  As I wrote  above ,he was taken from two meals a day to one.Then separated to eat then back to two meals a day. During this time he has been turned out 24/7 on pasture.
Looking at his numbers and understanding a little more now than I did ,does he have PPID? He has to be clipped in the spring now. Is J-herb safe to give him if he has PPID? 
Thank you for your time and advice.
--
Anette and Superman (Jaywalker in heaven)
Boomer, NC
Sep.9 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anette%20and%20Jaywalker
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265991


Sherry Morse
 

Based on his test result in October 2021 Superman had PPID although his ACTH wasn't crazy high (reference the chart here: Microsoft Word - Seasonal Changes in ACTH Secretion.docx (groups.io).  The results earlier this year indicate that the .5mg of pergolide is controlling the PPID.  

If you wanted to see if he has elevated ACTH off of pergolide you would stop it after the rise (end of the year) and then retest by early spring to see what his ACTH level is.  That gives you time to titrate him back up and recheck again prior to the rise.

There's no issue with giving the J-herb to a PPID horse.




Anette
 

Thank you Sherry,
         I saved that chart for future reference. I think I will do as you mentioned and take him off Prascend at the end of the year. In the meantime we will increase his Timothy cubes and make sure he as much hay as he will eat. How much J-herb should he get?
       I searched for info on low testosterone in geldings , there wasn't much and what there was referred to cryptorchids .
Thank you, I'm feeling hopeful that we can get him looking and better again.
--
Anette and Superman (Jaywalker in heaven)
Boomer, NC
Sep.9 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anette%20and%20Jaywalker
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265991


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Anette,

I think you would need to do TRH Stimulation to get a definitive answer on PPID but he is certainly suspicious. Yes, Jiaogulan is safe to give him. I would also increase the volume of his two meals now that pastures are fading in nutritional value, and add a protein supplement or at least Tri-Amino.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001
The first step to wisdom is "I don't know."


Anette
 

Thank you, I wanted to do TRH before but there was an issue with getting the hormone. Definitely will approach this again if needed. How much J-herb should he get?
--
Anette and Superman (Jaywalker in heaven)
Boomer, NC
Sep.9 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anette%20and%20Jaywalker
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265991


Anette
 

He is getting Mad Barn Trace Amino+ is that good?
--
Anette and Superman (Jaywalker in heaven)
Boomer, NC
Sep.9 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anette%20and%20Jaywalker
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265991


Sherry Morse
 

Information on J-herb can be found in the files including dosage (as well as by searching the message archives): https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Pain%20Medication%20and%20Alternatives/Jiaogulan,%20Nitric%20Oxide%20Support,%20AAKG%20and%20Supps