Topics

PEA


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Any reports on responses to PEA - palmitoylethanolamide?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Debra Trujillo
 

I have a report on PEA.  I started PEA-um in December for both me and my horse Abby.  Abby has had a vet diagnosis of having arthritis in her left rear stifle joint.  She has increasingly gotten worse about holding her left foot up for the farrier for any length of time.  I've had her on both Phyto-Quench and Mov-ease for over a year.  At first Phyto-Quench did help, but after a while, it didn't seem to help as much, not sure if Mov-Ease helps or not, but I'm scared to quit either one right now.  Prior to starting PEA, when trying to pick up her left rear foot, Abby would hold her leg clear up to her stomach for a good 5 seconds before relaxing it enough for you to clean it or put it on your knee.  During a trim prior to starting PEA, Abby snatched her foot from the farrier to put it down quickly.  That had never happened before and he felt she was worse.  I started PEA in December at 3000mg twice a day, morning and evening.  Three and a half weeks into feeding her the PEA, she had her feet trimmed again.  That trim was much better.  She picked her left rear leg up for the farrier, held it up for just a couple of seconds and then let him put it on his knee and left it there until he was finished trimming that foot.  No snatching it back.  When he let go of her foot, she did hold it up for a couple of seconds and then put it down.  I have noticed she is more acceptable to me picking up her hind feet than she was before.  So my farrier and I think it is helping her so far.  She seems to want to move more when out in pasture than she did before also.  I've kept her on 2400mg in the morning and still 3000mg at evening feeding.  We are about 6 1/2 weeks into using PEA-um.  As for me, I didn't feel much of a difference other than I've noticed I am able to not take as many NSAIDS as I was prior to starting the PEA.  I thought it might help with any arthritis in my back.  I don't know if it is or not.  No dramatic change in pain, but maybe more bearable?.  I am taking 600mg twice a day. 
--
Debbie and Precious
June 2017, Parker CO
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Precious  .
Precious' Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6846  .



Joy V
 

Debbie, can I ask where you're purchasing the PEA-um? 

Thank you!
Joy


--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Debbie,

Thank you for the report. Her reaction during trimming before you started the PEA also sound like Stringhalt or Shivers (were her muscles quivering?). That would make sense too since these are neurological issues. More  voluntary movement is a good indicator of reduced  discomfort.

I agree with your experience with back pain. Radiculopathy symptoms of shooting pain, tingling and numbness are greatly reduced but it doesn't seem to do much for muscle spasm. I also had a problem with "frozen shoulders" and reduced range of motion but that has completely disappeared.

My old dog has a bad hip and probably spinal issues as well that were controlled well on high dose MSM - until they weren't when the really cold weather set in. She was limping badly, slow and stiff all over, very resistant to getting up. She was dramatically better within 24 hours and by 3 days moving better than she has in years.

It remains to be seen if it can be of much use for acute laminitis  but should be helpful with longstanding laminitis pain.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

I think I am going to try this for me and my dogs and maybe Vinnie again.

I have a frozen shoulder that I had injected last year but range of motion is reduced again and painful.

I have four dogs, two pit mixes Molly and Rawlee age 7 in March with arthritis of the knees, and  mix breed  Hayley 14 with advanced arthritis in her spine and Oliver who is 10 and he knock wood doesn't show any symptoms yet.

And of course we know Vinnie :) he does that hiking up the hind leg and doesn't release during Farrier appts.  I have always thought it was hip soreness or lumbar because he is always tight in those areas. And of course the recovery from laminitis.

I am going to stop DC because I think he is having tummy response to it.. he seems to go off food more when taking DC. And I want to see if the Jherb helps the feet w/o the DC interrupting.

Is there a difference between PEA and PEA um?

Thx Nan
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 
Edited

PEA-um is ultramicronized which should increase absorption and is the most well studied. I use https://www.elevationterpenes.com/collections/pea . The dog is getting a high dose, 400 mg (she's about 70 - 75 lbs) but only once a day. I'm taking 600 mg twice a day. Horses, average size, 2500 mg twice a day.

The early responses are nice to see but it sometimes takes several weeks for full response. That always makes me suspicious  that other factors were operating but in the case of my shoulders for example they had been like that for many years and nothing else was changed. Not even sure how long it took because I don't normally push my luck with it but noticed about 3 to 4 weeks in that I was able to do a move that normally would be impossible. Give it time.

A nice thing about it is that PEA is tasteless. Also adheres well. Even the ultramicronized will not "puff up" when the horse eats. I take the powder plain between meals but the animals get it with food.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Frances C.
 

Dec. 1 2020 started using Finish Line Willow as my supply of Devils Claw was drying up.
Dec. 8 2020 400 mg PEA in oil
Dec. 9 Bright eyed and busy tailed
Dec 12 PEA has been titrated up to 2000 mg per day
Dec. 15 Add 1 teas. Pine Bark Extract per day
Dec. 30 Discontinue Finish Line
Jan 7 2021 used up last of Devils Claw 2 teas. per day - grumpy attitude
Jan 7 2021 Add 500 mg quercetin and 500 mg bromelain to PEA oil mix
Jan 8 2021 - No improvemtnt noticed
The first weeks of January we had beautiful weather in the 70 degrees F. and night in the 50's and both my horses seemed to respond favorably to these conditions moving about and seeming to enjoy themselves and then on Jan. 25 we reverted to snow and an atmospheric river for the next 5 days during which time the horses huddled in their shelter and did not move around.
What effect does these varying weather conditions have on pain management????
Over time does the body get used to some meds. such as Devils Claw or PEA and thus become less effective or is it just that the pain conditions of the horse get worse????
How long should one wait for a pain med to clear the system before beginning another one????
I wish I could say that I have seen an improvement with the use of PEA but I feel my horse is not a good model because of her multiple issues and the changing weather environment. I will continue with the PEA for at least another month in the hopes of being able to see an improvement, If not I will switch back to Devil's Claw and perhaps try Evening Primrose oil.

--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Frances,

Your PEA dose is probably too low. I would bump it up to 2500 mg twice a day.  Are you buying powder and mixing to the oil or is it premixed? Ultramicronized? What conditions are you treating?

Cold increases joint sensitivity to pain. It also makes tissues stiffer.

Medications or herbs will clear within 3 days or less.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


 

Hi Debbie,
My horse, Logo, was diagnosed with shivers many years ago.  I thought of that when reading your post.  I never had the knowledge of or opportunity to try PEA.  Nor did I try him on cannabis.  He had difficult to control PPID and I noted that the better controlled his PPID was, the less symptomatic his shivers were.  As time went on, I tended to question the diagnosis because the symptoms did not worsen with age and he could back reasonably well.  Just throwing this out into the ether.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Debra Trujillo
 

Dr. Kellon,

Thank you for your information and your experience with PEA.  I have not thought of Stringhalt before.  I don't really know anything about it and will have to research it.  I've heard of it, but that's as much as I know.  I think I've always had it in my mind that Abby had arthritis in her stifle and just always thought that's what is causing her pain.  Before PEA, when asking for her to pick up her left rear foot, she would ignore the request until really getting after her to pick it up.  As soon as the foot left the ground with me holding the foot, the whole leg would go up to her belly and she would hold it there for some time before slowly bringing it down.  While up in the air, her whole limb quivers.  I attributed that to her being in pain.  When she slowly brings it back down, if I try to put her foot on my knee too soon, she would bring it back up again.  If I went slower, then she would finally let me put her foot on my knee.  When putting her foot down on the ground, she would take it from me and lift it clear up to her belly and hold for a little bit before slowly releasing and putting her foot on the ground.  She would do that very slowly.  Same with the farrier, except the trim before starting PEA, she snatched her foot from him like it was hurting her to have it in that position for very long and in doing so put her foot down hard and quick, then she lifted it up again just a little off the ground, like "damn, that hurt".
So now after giving her PEA, she is hesitant about picking up her hind feet, but will voluntarily do it without me getting after her.  She still brings the foot up to her belly, but not for as long and is able to slowly put her foot on my knee.  She does not seem in pain while I have her foot up, but when releasing it, she still brings her leg up high and then slowly brings it down to the ground.  The time span of her holding it up is less and she is more amiable about giving it to me.  This used to be just her left hind leg, but now her right hind is starting to be that way too.  She will be 22 this year.
As for moving better in pasture, prior to PEA, she was hesitant to canter and if pushed, she would take short steps behind, like being really stiff.  She would warm out of it though.  Now, after PEA, she is voluntarily wanting to play and canter.  She is still stiff looking at first, but not as bad as before and not as long.  What is surprising to me is she is starting to initiate play, where she did not before.  So, I hope this is a long term help for her.  But, now I have to look up Stringhalt!  I'll have my vet pick her foot up too, when he comes for spring shots.  I've been hesitant because I don't want to do injections.
  
For my back, it is very painful to straighten up after bending.  The pain wasn't a pinched nerve type of pain, just overall very stiff and painful.  So, I thought maybe that was arthritis, just my thinking.  But, the PEA has not helped in that area that much.  I do have a lot of muscle stiffness and cramping in my back, worse with exercise.  NSAIDs help, so I know it is inflammation from bad discs, pinched nerves.  I think PEA has helped some, so will keep taking it.  I love that it has no smell or taste!    
Thanks again!
--
Debbie and Precious
June 2017, Parker CO
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Precious  .
Precious' Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6846  .



Debra Trujillo
 

Joy,
I get it from the same place as Dr. Kellon, https://www.elevationterpenes.com/collections/pea

--
Debbie and Precious
June 2017, Parker CO
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Precious  .
Precious' Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6846  .



Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

With these further details it actually sounds more like Shivers because of the muscular quivering (which is where Shivers got its name). A hallmark of Stringhalt versus Shivers is also that the foot is very forcefully slapped to the ground, which it doesn't sound like she does consistently.  Shivers is also more commonly associated with difficulty with trimming and shoeing. Either way, they both have a strong neurological component.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Debra Trujillo
 

Hi Martha,
Thank you.  I don't know anything about Shivers either.  I'll have to look it up too.  Before I started the PEA, I had Abby on Phyto-Quench and Mov-Ease.  Phyto-Quench helped her a lot in the beginning, the farrier noticed too.  But, then the Hemp Joint came out and it was cheaper, so I decided to try it.  About the same time, Phyto-Quench was out of stock too.  I tried the Hemp Joint for about 4 months and Abby got worse.  I was still giving her Mov-Ease.  So finally, I gave up on the Hemp Joint and went back to Phyto-Quench and Mov-Ease.  She never returned to being as good as she was before I took her off of Phyto-Quench and slowly got a little worse.  I have been giving her two scoops of that every day, 1 morning and 1 night.  I can't say whether or not Mov-Ease helps at all.  So now PEA is added and she is noticeably better. She backs up fine, if not being able to do that is a symptom. 

I don't have Abby on Prascend yet.  So far, her ACTH has been in the reference ranges.  She was diagnosed IR when Precious came down with laminitis and was also IR. But, her insulin has been good with the diet change.  She is starting to get longer hair in the winter, but she looses it too.  No other signs of PPID.  Her topline is good. 

Thank you for sharing.  I'll research both Stringhalt and Shivers.

--
Debbie and Precious
June 2017, Parker CO
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Precious  .
Precious' Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6846  .



Debra Trujillo
 

Thank you Dr. Kellon.  I'll look into that too.  Abby does not forcefully slap her foot to the ground consistently.  Just that one time.  Her limb quivers when holding the foot clear up to the belly, but not any other time.  So, PEA helps with neurological ailments?      
--
Debbie and Precious
June 2017, Parker CO
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Precious  .
Precious' Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6846  .



Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Yes, I would stop the CBD.  PEA doesn't compete for endocannabinoid receptor sites but one of its (many) effects is to enhance the production of endocannabinoids and giving CBD would compete with those.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 


Frances C.
 

Thank you so much DR. K
My pocket-book screams in protest at the price of Elevations Terpenes unless I go for the mega-dose package. I don't want to spend that amount until I see some benefit. In the meantime I am using Lake Avenue Nutrition veggie capsules from Iherb and/or Harvest Naturals PEA veggie capsules whichever is on sale. I tediously open every capsule until I reach 2000 mg PEA in a small container, open a 500 mg capsule of bromelain and 500 mg capsule of quercetin and mix it all up in 2 teas. hempseed oil (I know, I know but she loves this oil). The oil is cold so I let this mix sit for a while, 30 minutes or so before adding it to her feed. Interestingly it seems that the quercetin helps dissolve the PEA so that it looks more like an emulsion than a suspension. This quercetin reminds me in color of curcumin. These two additives are supposed to boost the action of PEA.
I have been taking 600 mg of the PEA capsule myself and find that my arthritic knuckles do not hurt so badly.
I can bump up the dosage to 4000 or 5000 mg but don't think I can manage to split the dosage and see if that helps.
The horse suffers from LF carpel arthritis LR hock arthritis and god knows what other arthritis, is PPID/IR and  DSLD.
So interesting to read of others having difficulties with hind leg lifting for farriers. I can raise her bad front hoof but not her good one which makes sense.
My farrier is very kind and patient with her working on her hinds. (I cant get them off the ground) He has to kneel and hold her hoof for a good minute or so before he can flex it and position it. When he is through she just stands there with her lower leg quivering and about 12 inches from the ground. Sometimes we put hand pressure on top of the hoof to try to lower it to ground or have to walk around the other side of the horse and push on her side.
I have tried giving bute a few hours prior to trimming but did not have any effect.
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Frances Vinnie does the same, I feel like pentosan helped a bit. I have tried doing Masterson while his leg is lifted and that helps a teeny bit too on the release...seems to quiver less on the foot is put down.  Before pentosan he would touch his toe down and limp a couple steps. But no he is able to put the foot down but you can telI it is still uncomfortable.  And seems sore a couple days after trim in his hind end..  when we were walking we did a little pole work and that seemd to help too..  I feel like it is muscle  tightness combined with sore hips and maybe hocks.  I tried methocarbamol too with some success but it is never perfect.
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Joy V
 

Thanks so much!  I got the link from Dr. Kellon's reply too.  I appreciate it!


--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526