Question on hay analysis


Sue Neidlinger
 


-- I have my hay tested by the wet chem method at Equi-analytical. I have always checked the esc + sugar values in the first column, % as sampled. Is this correct or should I have been looking at the % Dry matter? I just want to make sure I am checking the correct values. Thank you. 


Sue and Spirit 

Burt, NY, USA
Aug 2017
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Hi Sue,
Those are the numbers I use as well.  ESC + starch is what I believe you meant to say.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo
 


Sue Neidlinger
 


-- I know you add ESC + starch, but when you get your hay analysis back from equi-analytical, there are two sets of numbers for each mineral, vitamin etc
one column of numbers is under the heading “as sampled” one column of numbers is under the heading “dry matter”
the ESC + starch values are generally higher under “dry matter” then under “as sampled”
in most cases the two added together are under 10, but one field that my hay guy cuts its under 10% in “as sampled” but at 11% under “dry matter”

I’d like to know which values under which heading are most accurate as to what is in the hay bales I’m am giving my horse. 


Sue and Spirit 

Burt, NY, USA
Aug 2017
Spirit's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sue%20and%20Spirit 
Spirit's Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8806 .


 

Sue, the way you feed hay is the same as "As Sampled," meaning "as is." That's how we feed our horses, so that is the result we use.

The difference between "As Sampled" and "Dry Matter" isn't a matter of accuracy. Both are based on exactly the same lab results. "As Sampled" is "Dry Matter" diluted by the amount of moisture in the hay. 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
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Sue, you said you use the first column and I replied that I use that one as well.  I just added the part on starch so others would not be confused if they read your mention of “ESC + sugar”.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo
 


lorraine kitral
 


--
Lorrie K 
Illinois Member since 2016


Sue Neidlinger
 

Thank you Cass and Martha! That answered my question. 
--


Sue and Spirit 

Burt, NY, USA
Aug 2017
Spirit's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sue%20and%20Spirit 
Spirit's Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8806 .


Kimberly
 

Equi-analytical advises to use the third column to get the values in question. I asked this question at the lab on Monday. I had always used the first as well.
--
Kimberly joined 7.17.2018 Virginia
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Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Kimberly,

The third column lists the result as % dry matter. That isn't useful when you are feeding hay because you don't fee hay on a dry matter basis - you feed it straight from the bale, which contains moisture to some degree. If you use the dry matter basis in your calculations, you will actually be providing less than what you calculated when you hand out the hay unless you increase the amount provided to compensate for the moisture content.

The dry matter column is used to compare different types of feeds/forages/supplements so you can make an apples-to-apples comparison by removing the dilution factor (moisture).

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Nancy C
 

Hi Kimbeerly

Just to be clear for new folks, you want to use "As Sampled"

Dry matter is the crop minus all moisture.  While samples submitted will vary, as long as your moisture content is around 10%, your "As Sampled" will represent what your horse is eating.

You can read about thier definitions here: https://equi-analytical.com/resources/glossary-of-nutrient-terms/


--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2021-2022



Jackie W
 

Thanks! Good to know it's OK to use Dry Matter when comparing hay to the 10% ESC + Starch guidance.  I've always had this question, too. I use the As Sampled for all the minerals, because that's truly what they're eating.  However, I thought the ESC and Starch was a % issue for the meal at hand, and I wasn't sure if the ESC/Starch impact could be reduced by adding water (moisture), so I had been using the Dry Matter for ESC and Starch just to be safe. Thanks, again for the clarification!
--
Jackie and Megan
Palm Bay, FL, 
Joined March 2018

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Kimberly
 

Thanks Nancy and Lavinia, I only posted as I have discussed this and NIRS vs Wet Chemistry with the lab alot over the years.  They have always advised to  use the 3rd column, which is usually higher, so I assumed that was correct.  What you say makes perfect sense in that how you feed is what really matters.  I just did what they recommended based on my questions to them about how important the results are for IR horses.  I guess now I will have a bit more wiggle room.  Thank you for the clarification and I hope my comment did not confuse anyone.  BTW, Mouse will be going to VA Tech on Thursday so I will update as I have more info.  Kimberly 
--
Kimberly joined 7.17.2018 Virginia
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