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Safe Anesthesia/ medications for PPID / IR horses

Sue
 

I can't remember where to find the medications that won't cause laminitis or interfere with Prascend?  Tex may be having a surgery or procedure to remove  a large tumor on his side. 
--
Sue M in OH 2019

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Sue,

I entered safe sedative into our search box.
This could be useful for you....
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/SEDATIVE%20EFFECTS.pdf

--
Lorna in Eastern Ontario
2002

Sue
 

Are there any other medications to be watching out for.  I want to make sure all vets treating him are aware that certain meds could cause laminitis in a PPID/IR horse. Our local vet mentioned that the oncology vet may implant beads or something but that is still to be determined.   Any known chemotherapy agents cause laminitis.  
  Steroids are a no go correct?

--
Sue M in OH 2019

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

I can't answer your question about medication but just want to mention jiaogulan should be stopped before any surgery, if he's on it.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (EMS + PPID) and Snickers (EMS) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

Snickers' Case History
Snickers' Photo Album

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Sue,

You could ask your vet to give you a list of medications they are considering, then look up the side effects yourself, too.  Or post that list here for Dr Kellon to review.

I'd avoid anything that reports laminitis as a side effect if you can, but if the PPID is well controlled you may not need to worry.  If he also has EMS I'd be more cautious.  But without a case history to review it's impossible for us to speculate on what Tex's actual risk of laminitis is.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (EMS + PPID) and Snickers (EMS) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

Snickers' Case History
Snickers' Photo Album

Sue
 

I'm not sure how much notice we will get on the medications.  We had the biopsy done by our local vet so I don't know what to expect for his oncology visit.   The oncology vet  is 1 and 1/2 hours away.   He seems to be in control on his PPID and IR  symptoms for now.  I did not get to the case history as I  had been taking care of my mother 24/7 after her stroke when we rescued Tex in  Aug of 2018. He did have laminitis with sinking and rotation that followed worming and vaccinations so we were not sure if it was just bad reaction to vaccines or large parasite die off since he appeared to have had no care for quite a long time. We tested him for PPID and IR 10/10/19 and put him on Prascend.  His symptoms have been in control since following the guidelines on the ECIR page the best I could without hay testing as we get such a small amount at a time.  He is on 1 and 1/2 tablet Prascend currently and we have had 3 and 1/2 years without hoof pain.  Now he has a 13 inch tumor on his side.  
  I read through as many questions and answers as I could in short increments while caring for my mother as I did not have much spare time.  I thought I saw that steroids were listed as increasing insulin or blood sugar too but I can't remember.  I guess I was looking for even basic medication list that may be utilized in common vet treatments to make sure I can spot the higher risk ones for a PPID/IR horse. 
  Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.   

--
Sue M in OH 2019

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Sue,

Perhaps you should also repost your question and ask for Dr Kellon's help in the Subject line, to get her attention.

Here's the results of a search of the message archives on "steroids +laminitis" for you to scan thru, pay particular attention to Dr Kellon's posts:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/search?p=recentpostdate%2Fsticky%2C%2C%2C20%2C2%2C0%2C0&q=Steroids+%2Blaminitis
I think you'll see that they should be avoided, UNLESS it's necessary for life-saving meds and there are no other alternatives.

Notably:
The steroids will increase any horse's glucose and insulin but usually don't cause laminitis unless it is a horse predisposed it.  By Eleanor Kellon, VMD 
Before considering risk of steroids, we'd also want to see all Tex's insulin, glucose and ACTH results.  You can upload the pdfs or jpegs the vet sent you here, even if you don't have time to make a Case History. 
Instructions on uploading jpegs: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/How-to-Make-a-Photo-Album
Pdfs would be uploaded to your Case History folder.  Instructions for uploading pdfs are at the back of the Case History form: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki#Case-History-Help

I understand your concern about the tumor, but it may not be life-threatening.  My mom's mule lived for 10 years with a similar-sized tumour on the side of her belly.  They had it ultrasounded and I believe it appeared to be fatty tissue so it was left alone.  She was euthanized this fall for unrelated reasons.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (EMS + PPID) and Snickers (EMS) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

Snickers' Case History
Snickers' Photo Album

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