Saraphina insulin test results


CYNDI CARLSON
 

Hi
just got back Saraphinas test results.
Insulin 29
Glucose 95
T-4 2.8
Leptin 5.12 no/ ml
i have the results in her file, I’m still new at this and am not sure how to put them in her case history file.
she is in a lot of pain today. The vet wants me to give her Bute, I’m holding off waiting for a new vet I called who said there are other alternatives and she wants to try acupuncture.Saraphina has always been on Bute and I NOW understand not to give it to her plus I am treating her with Gastrogard.
--
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021


 

Cyndi, the file appears to be in the right place.  You might want to set up a folder inside your case history folder for blood results.  Then you can move all 3 of your blood testing results into that folder.  The easiest way to upload a file is to go to the place where you want the file to land and select ‘upload file’.  I think you already know how to move files now.
That’s an amazing insulin drop.  Keep up the good work!
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Cyndi,

Refresh my memory - have you sourced Phytoquench with Devil's Claw for Saraphina?  That would be my first choice of pain relief at this point in time.




CYNDI CARLSON
 

Hi Sherry, no I have not checked into Phytoquench with devils claw, can you suggest where I can find this?
I have her on Equioxx , she got laser treatment for pain last, boy that helped her getting another treatment Monday.
I like this new vet, she highly regards the group!
--
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021


CYNDI CARLSON
 

Martha, ok will work on cleaning up my files!

Should I be concerned about the T-4 results? The vet commented that she believed it is high due to thryo-L
which I have weaned Saraphina off.
--
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Cyndi,

You want the pellets as they have Devils Claw: https://uckele.com/phyto-quench-pellet.html.  Use code ECIR for a 5% discount.  Then you can read about switching from a NSAID to Phyto-quench here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Pain%20Medication%20and%20Alternatives/Pain%20control,%20switching%20from%20Bute%20to%20Phyto-Quench.pdf

Just FYI - Equioxx is a NSAID just like bute so doubling up on the NSAIDs is not a good idea IMO.  Also, if she's still sore on Equioxx IME it's probably not actually helping.  If you decide to stop the NSAIDs and not replace them with something else please make sure you taper off slowly.  You can read more about that here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Pain%20Medication%20and%20Alternatives/How%20to%20Taper%20Off%20NSAIDs.pdf

And finally, when you have a chance can you please update your case history with the current medications she is on?




CYNDI CARLSON
 

Hi Sherry,
thank you for the information and link for the devils claw.I will read up on it, as Saraphina is very sore. I’m concerned about her pain level since she will only eat her soaked hay, with trace minerals added, she’s being very picky.
I will work on updated my case history !
thank you!
--
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021


 


 Hi Cyndi,

I use Phyto-quench with Devil’s Claw with good results.  I believed I mentioned that in a pm.  Can you describe her soreness a bit?  Is it in her feet and you notice it when she walks or something else?  Does she favor one foot?  Does she lie down?  You’ve mentioned it a lot and I know it bothers you.  Have you searched the messages for ‘pain’?  You may get some good tips there as most people have the same concern with their horses at this stage in the process.  CBD comes to mind.  There may be an abscess brewing.

If she’s eating her hay well, and her minerals are eaten with the hay, what else are you feeding her that she won’t eat?  I still think any fussiness about eating might well be related to her need for more pergolide.  Is she getting 1 tube of UlcerGard or GastroGard daily?  

I don’t think you should be concerned with the T-4 as it’s described to be in the normal range, I think.  Someone else might have a different opinion.  I think Sherry might have reorganized your case history folder for you - it looks good to me now, so the only need there is to add data to your case history form/file.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


CYNDI CARLSON
 

Hi Martha,
The pain is in her feet both feet as she shifts back and forth on them. The last two days she has stood in one spot only.I’ve had to put the hay in front of her so she can eat,water also but only drinking 1/2 a bucket of water a day.I have not seen her drink any water today.The new vet that came last night wanted me to give her 2 tabs Equioxx a day for three days then 1 tab a day. I am ordering the devils claw.Philip carved her sole a little when he trimmed her to make sure she did not have a abbess.He put Artimud and socks on her and I changed it Tuesday,getting ready to change it again.she lays down but she also is standing a lot.She is eating 5 to 6 lbs of the 10lbs I am giving her twice a day.I try to get her to eat Stabul one, she won’t,dry or moist,definitely will not eat beet pulp,tried to mix every favor in it and she will no longer eat TC Timothy hay cubes.I can tell she has gained some weight just afraid she will start losing weight if she doesn’t eat more.She is still getting .5 ml of prascend,I ordered the APF, waiting to get her on that for a week before increasing her dose.she is getting one tube of Gastrogard daily.
I will work on updating records.
Thank you
--
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021


Maxine McArthur
 

Cyndi, I’m not sure  how much water is in your bucket, but if she is eating soaked hay her water intake may drop a bit. Obviously she does need to drink some from the bucket, so keep monitoring. 

It’s very hard to see our beloved horses in pain, we all understand. 

--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Cyndi,

Her eating really sounds like she may have gastric ulcers. Ask your vet for a few days of omeprazole to see if that changes anything.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


 
Edited

Dr. Kellon, Saraphina has been on one tube of Omeprazole for more than a few days now.  Would she benefit from more?  She’s also still on Nsaids.

Maxine, I know Saraphina has padded boots on but you are such a wizard with boots, I wondered if you might have some thoughts on what Cyndi’s using.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

Hi Cindy,

Unfortunately, carving her already thin soles likely made her more painful as now there is even less protection between the ground and her coffin bones :(  If she IS brewing an abscess, using NSAIDs will only slow down the process and make it last longer. Horses with ulcers tend to want to eat only hay as grains of any kind make them feel worse. As long as she's eating her hay, I'd hold off on the grain for now and keep giving the Gastrogard. You could try giving her smaller, more frequent hay meals to see if she will et more overall.

Giving NSAIDs while on Gastrogard has been found to not only not help, it made the overall situation worse:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/261812?p=,,,20,0,0,0::Created,,bute+and+gastrogard,20,2,0,80902265

Although this study was done using bute, it seems to warrant caution with all NSAIDs.

When she was trimmed, were her heels lowered? Was there anything taken off the bottom of the rest of the walls? Were the frogs trimmed? Were her back feet trimmed?

I would want to see the trimmer back to do more adjustments in two weeks rather than waiting 4 weeks.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Maxine McArthur
 

Cyndi, when you said Saraphina has "socks" on, do you mean like human socks? Does she have any padding on the bottom of her feet? If she has bare (unshod) feet and just a thin layer of sock, you could try giving her some more padding. There are several ways to do this--boots with pads, or even baby diapers, or pads duct-taped to the feet. If she can't pick up her feet for you to do this, you may have to wait until she is lying down. Pad material is whatever works for her--yoga mats, wool felt, styrofoam, even layers of dry poultice can offer support and comfort. It needs to be something that supports the foot when weight is on it, but that pressure needs to come off when the horse takes weight off the foot. (This is why nailed-on shoes with pads aren't useful.)
You can also experiment with cutting out some of the pad to offer relief to any specifically painful areas. 

Cindy had some great suggestions re boots and pads in your previous thread, here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/266878


--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


CYNDI CARLSON
 

Hi Lavinia

-- yes I have to say I was very concerned when I saw him take ANY sole off! Especially since he saw the rads, his concern was a abscess so he shaved some sole. He took toe off and what he called bars on July 24th.She had 2 grams of Bute that day ( per my conversation with him and vet to” get the job done”)and Philip suggested Equioxx for pain after the 24th. I gave her two days of Equioxx not knowing  Whether I should do that or not. I did not continue the Equioxx BUT after a vet visit last night, because my ongoing concerns with pain and not eating she suggested Equioxx again! I gave her two tabs last night, I will STOP! Due to the problems I NOW understand it will cause, I’m talking one day on them!Saraphina is currently in cloud boots,with Artimud,socks between hoofs and boots with blue pads in them on lots of shavings.i will pass this on to the farrier but my concerns Lavinia is what trimming can he do?My last hoof photos were after he trimmed her toes July 24th ( he said he could not cut anymore off) so he had no intention of coming back for 4 weeks. Upon your review he WILL come back at my request,he has been keeping in contact with me.Saraphina craves hay and hay particularly dry no grain, and yes she is getting a tube of Gastrogard daily. I would greatly appreciate any input!
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021


CYNDI CARLSON
 


-- Hi Maxine,
I need to clarify yes human socks! the farrier packed Artimud in her sole area to prevent a abscess put human socks on then cloud boots with new blue inserts.and She is standing on lots of shavings.
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

She shouldn't be on NSAIDs and omeprazole at the same time. It can actually make intestinal issues worse: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32697849/  I would get off the NSAIDs as a first step to healing on all fronts.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


CYNDI CARLSON
 

Thank you Dr. Kellon I will get her off of the NSAIDs.
--
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021


CYNDI CARLSON
 


-- Hi Lavinia 
my farrier is willing to come out sooner than four weeks, He would really like some guidance from you on what he should do? I think he was feeling he couldn’t do much just because he felt he could not cut anymore toe off. He took bars down a bit but that was all.
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021


Nancy C
 

Hi Cyndi

Not sure if these links have been shared, but while you wait for Lavinia's help to move forward, I'd recommend a look, even if you've already seen them

https://www.ecirhorse.org/DDT+E-trim.php
https://www.ecirhorse.org/realigning-trim.php

and

https://www.ecirhorse.org/laminitis.php

Hang in there.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 13-15, ECIR Virtual Conference Room