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Scooter's newest case history is posted. His IR calculator result says he has uncompensated IR. Is this good/bad? and what do I need to do?

Rhonda Turley
 


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Scooter and Rhonda      

Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Great job on getting your case history done!  I'm sorry to see his laminitis/founder all happened when you couldn't be there because of barn closures...that must have been tough.

Uncompensated IR means his IR is under poor control and he would really benefit from tightening up the diet.  I see you are soaking hay and all of his supplements look safe to me, so that is good.  But, your April blood work shows that despite all that, he is still uncompensated IR.  Have you had the hay tested for ESC and starch content?  Even if you are soaking it, it might still be too high for Scooter, especially now that he is not able to be exercised.  What is his comfort level like now?  Do you see that he is feeling and moving better, or is he still struggling with hoof pain?

A couple comments/clarifications re: your case history:

1.  Mad Barn Amino Trace +: are you feeding 2 cups, or are you feeding 2 of the enclosed scoops?  If the latter, writing 200g is probably best as the scoops are not 1 cup in size

2.  I would up your ground flax to ~2/3 cup per day to better meet Scooter's Omega-3 needs if you can

3.  If he is eating 2 quarts of Ontario Dehy cubes on top of 25lbs of hay, he is getting more than he needs.  I know he's a Canadian and they tend to be a bit bulky naturally, and you have him at 1217 lbs currently and 1250 lbs ideally, but would you consider posting some body shots for feedback?  I don't know what 2 quarts of the hay cubes weigh, but that needs to be included in the total weight of his feed, which for 1250 lb horse should be 25 lbs.  Are you trying to bulk him up a little more?  If he is carrying extra weight, it will only worsen the IR.

Let us know if you have any more questions!

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Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator

 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Oh, I meant to add that now is a good time to check his ACTH again and make sure that his current Prascend dose has brought it down to a safe level (mid-range of the U Guelph values).  We are going in to the seasonal rise and you need to know if he his PPID is controlled before it shoots up for the rise.  If you can afford it, I would run insulin and glucose again as well as those numbers are also always good to know and insulin can come down if PPID is better controlled, but ACTH is the critical one for Scooter right now.

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Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   

Rhonda Turley
 

I was not able to get entrance to the barn from early March to end of May due to government closure.  Yes this was very frustrating.  All I could do was drop off vet prescribed Prascend, Insulinwise (very expensive), Biotin and Zinc, Blacks Bio-Plus.  None of these supplements worked and I got rid of them.  On June 10 the barn was open and I had started on Mad Barn AminoTrace+. He is receiving 2 scoops (not 2 cups).  There was a noticeable difference the next day.  I had found Mad Barn Vitamin E and added that in, plus salt, plus flax seed, salt plus Mad Barn probiotic.  all this got mixed into Timothy Balance Cubes which act as his grain and he was eating it regularly.  The hay amount is only a guess as they have no way to weigh it.  I have spent a lot of time educating barn staff and barn owner.  I think they understand that he can't have alfalfa!.  Currently doing well and looking good.  Putting him on the AminoTrace+ has helped his feet a lot.  Has been sound with no ouchiness for last 3 weeks.  I have started just walking him in the indoor arena.  Currently doing well with 30 minutes hand walking.  I got the farrier and vet to work together for the first trim and he has been having trims every 3 weeks now.  Still a way to go.  Not trying to muscle him up yet.  That will come next year.  1250lbs was his competition weight as an advanced level dressage horse. i will increase the flax seed level as to your suggestion.  No laminitis or abscess episodes.  His energy level is coming back as well.
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Scooter and Rhonda      

Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020

Rhonda Turley
 

Well, I have spent thousands on the vets so far and he is looking good and doing well. I am now aware of the seasonal rise  and will hold off for more testing unless something appears wrong. I have been educating the vets as well.  (That is another long story as they are fast out with the invoices but very slow at getting the test results to me).Scooter is at a large boarding barn which goes through hay rapidly so I just eyeball it myself. I have taught them what Timothy hay looks like.  I would appreciate information on his ferriten result. The vets could not get his sample across the border so it was done at a local lab.  I put in Dr. Kellon's range but some intrepretation would be welcome.  Thanks for the help!!
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Scooter and Rhonda      

Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Good to hear he is doing better and getting regular trims!  I can't help with your ferriten question, that's best left to Dr Kellon.

I'm curious why the hay cannot be weighed if they are already doing the work of soaking it?   I have a little 5$ digital luggage scale hanging from my feed room ceiling that I use,  and a big round plastic feed tub that I hang from it and add hay to.  It only holds about 5 lbs, which I dump into a net for soaking and feeding.  I make up 3 nets once a day to feed 15lbs total.  It's really easy.  Anyways, pick your battles and keep educating the barn staff...you are making great progress with them eliminating alfalfa and soaking the grass hay. 

I would be concerned about his uncompensated IR status if the hay was being soaked when his blood work was done, though, and ECIR would still recommend doing new ACTH, insulin and glucose again before we are fully into the seasonal rise if you can.

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Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Rhonda,

A thought about weighing the hay yourself.
Wouldn't one of those little luggage scale,hand held thingies work? I envision your hooking it onto a stable nail (or something) and hooking other end through holes in full hay net.Bob's Your Uncle.
If the net isn't too heavy you can even hook the scale through its holes and hold it up off the ground yourself.
Then you'd know how well your eyeballing was working.
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Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Idexx doesn't do ferritin so must have sent it to KSU. The reference range listed is KSUs. The result would be milk iron overload **but** ferritin is as fragile as ACTH and unless it was processed correctly, shipped in a plastic tube and kept frozen the whole time, it's probably not accurate. It  may be higher.  Just keep his mineral ratios tight.
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Rhonda Turley
 

I have been at this boarding barn for 15 years and they generally have great care (but you have to do the barn owner's way).  Scooter is not allowed  any hay net as his food drive is strong.  (the joke about Canadians is they will die with hay in their mouth).  I have put a 40 lb white salt block in his stall and he moves that around with his nose and front feet. If there is one piece of hay in a hay net he will dive right in. Learned that one after I bought him at 3 years old.  He is now 14. I am very anal and wish the hay was weighed but I pick my battles. The hay was not soaked when the blood samples were taken.  Soaking his hay came after I got his results.  Correct me if I am wrong but the seasonal rise is on right now and peaks in August/September?
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Scooter and Rhonda      

Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020

Rhonda Turley
 

There is no shortage of hay/grain(in the past I would have to remind her not to feed Scooter as much) in this barn ever even though she could save money but the barn owner is not into boarding for the money! Scooter stays inside from 7 to 3 pm then gets turned out into a dirt paddock with soaked hay and a shelter for the night.  
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Scooter and Rhonda      

Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020

Rhonda Turley
 

Thanks for the answer!  Yes I have found out how minerals are working, to help him. I have no idea  if the vets followed the correct procedure for collection and storage.  My fingers are crossed on that one.  His chronic thrush has healed  and he is growing new sole/frog.
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Scooter and Rhonda      

Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020