Selenium and vitamin E blood levels elevated, recommended diet changes


a.k.a.petpalace2@...
 

Apollo recently had TRH stim test for PPID study.  Also had selenium and vitamin E levels tested as never been done.  Our vet ran these tests through Michigan State University Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory although I had suggested we run everything through Cornell.  Does it make a difference?

Selenium level: 230 ng/mL with reference range of 120-180.  Lab interpretation: this value was above adequate and animals with values in this range are receiving more selenium than necessary.  Although no concern for toxicity, intake of selenium supplements should be reduced.   Apollo's gets 6 oz (by weight not volume) VB regular with added selenium divided into 4 feedings/day.  Roughage: 2 lbs of TC timothy balance cubes + 3.5 lbs soaked grass hay 4x/day.  Retired dairy farmer we by hay from says he has not tested soil recently but when he did, selenium level was low.  This hay was grown in low lying area, farmer calls peat bog.  He uses commercial fertilizer.  We've had this same hay source for several years although specific field has varied.  We didn't test hay for selenium since it's normally low in our area.  Apollo didn't recieve any selenium supplement prior to onset of laminitis last fall.  

Vitamin E level:  4.81 ug/mL with reference range of 2.00-4.00.  Lab interpretation:  this value is more than adequate; excess vitamin E is not toxic.  Apollo gets 3,200 IU (6.25 ml) of Emcelle per day.  He had not received any vitamin E supplement prior to onset of laminitis last fall.   Only other supplements Apollo gets is 6 oz (by weight not volume) of ground flax divided into 4 feedings/day and few pellets of Stabul l with his Prascend tablet each day.

Apollo has lost a lot of weight since October 2021, calculated to be 147 pounds (from 1605 down to 1458 lbs).  He has lost about 45 lbs since started soaking hay about in 6 weeks ago.  His ribs are visible but continues to have cresty neck and prominent fat pad near tail.  Midline neck circumference has decreased from 119.5 cm in October to 112 cm taken this week.  Apollo's distinctive white neck marking provides a reliable landmark for accurate measurement.  Until he lost weight boney prominences for length were difficult to palpate.

Given his significant weight loss, should both his selenium and vitamin E supplements be decreased or just selenium?  Original supplement amounts were based on 1600 lbs.  Nicole at customequinenutrition.com provided diet analysis and mineral balancing using our hay analysis.

Karen B.
Wisconsin
2022
Apollo Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Apollo
Photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275817
 


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Minor excesses of vitamin E and selenium will not cause weight loss or laminitis.  In fact, "normal" reference ranges for both are likely far from optimal levels. However, the 6 mg of selenium from Vermont blend plus the balanced profile in Ontario Dehy is overkill. Could you post your hay analysis in your case history folder please?

Is he still on Thyro-L? Are you feeding a new hay or does he have grass access?  Last ACTH in your file looks OK but his insulin is way too high. Have you retested soaked hay to see if it was safe? Is he sore? Have you considered metformin?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


a.k.a.petpalace2@...
 

Will post hay analysis in case history and also graph that Nicole from customequinenutrition sent me regarding mineral balancing.  Almost out of hay for Apollo, only 14 bales left.  Hay for other horse is much higher in S/S although also much lower in iron.  I do rinse hay first because has lots of surface dirt and then soak it for 1 hour before draining and feeding. Recently double checked method lab we used for hay testing, it's combo of wet chemistry for minerals and rest done with NIR.  Was told NIR results are within 2.5% of wet chemistry and they don't do ESC wet chemistry.  On waiting list for new hay from commercial grower.  He does wet chemistry but his lab doesn't do NIR either just NSC.  DId give him info on equi-analytical.  Apollo is on dry lot. Spread used urine soaked bedding in paddock for extra cushioning and help keep weeds from growing.  Use rototiller to dig up weeks in paddock and use shovel to remove grass from under electrified vinyl board fence.  He can't reach other horse's hay.

My vet was okay with weaning off Thyro-L that he's been on for almost 8 months.  Started decreasing by 1/2 tsp on 6/6/22.  I'm not sure it had anything to do with being on Thyrol-L but Apollo definitely is easy to startle than he has ever been.

Brought up metformin again with vet when did TRH stim test but vet didn't say anything when told him it was commonly used in IR horses.  Seems odd to me that he doesn't object to running tests but then doesn't do much with results.  I can try again.  I emailed him info on metformin from ECIR in April.  Don't know if any vets around here know much about managing IR with medications.

Clinically he seems good.  Starting him on Jiaogulan seemed to make a big difference in his comfort level and overall brighter attitude, although haven't seen his gums get pinker when checked an hour after giving. Vaccinated for EWE and tetanus last week of May, couldn't find vaccine without tetanus but he did just fine. Gave WNV this week to both horses and both seem a bit quieter than usual but also been very hot and humid.  He's been walking well in cloud boots with pads.  Sometimes runs around in paddock, just short distances, when our young horse is goofing off. Usually at a canter not a trot.  Saw him do a little buck last night so he seems to be feeling okay.  A couple of weeks ago he was running around and striking out with his front hooves, something I've never seen him do before in all the years we've had him.  Flies are starting to get bad and mosquitoes also becoming numerous so more foot stomping also going on.  Use fly leg wraps and keep him sprayed.

Farrier trimmed him on Friday last week. Shared ECIR suggestions with him.  Took back long toes and addressed some of flaring.  Scheduled again for trim in 4 weeks.  

Sorry it's taking me so long to get everything posted, but I'm having my own health issues and not feeling my best right now.
--
Karen B.
Wisconsin
2022
Apollo Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Apollo
Photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275817
 


 

Hi Karen,
I’m looking forward to seeing your hay analysis as well.  It’s unusual to have a generic supplement balance any hay adequately without a bit of tweaking and I didn’t see that you are adding any individual minerals.

I went back through your past posts and wondered if you’d reached out to Lavinia here for help with Apollo’s trim?  Looking at his X-rays, it seems like she could be of some help to you.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

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