Shorty - Diagnosed with PPID 11/11/2022 - Health declining instead of improving.
18 yo 13h welsh pony - Diagnosed PPID 11/10 - Began 1/2 tab Prascend 11/11. ACTH 230-something. Does not look like insulin or thyroid were checked. Glucose very mildly elevated. All other labs WNL. Diet changed to Hygain Zero and slow feed mixed grass hay (started Triple Crown Safe Forage today to replace mixed grass hay). Moderate lameness noted 11/10 and has continued to get worse. Ruled out laminitis. No heat/bounding pulse/neg. hoof test per vet. Unstable on feet/very careful when placing feet and walking/only moves when absolutely forced/toe walking/rocking back and forth and front to back. Vet says severe muscle spasms that will get better in a few weeks. His recommendation: Banamine 8cc daily for two weeks, continue stall rest, 50ft walk twice daily (which is significant struggle). Now, bleeding from left nostril (day 4 of Banamine - we were previously doing Equioxx daily). NSAID related or something else? We're at a loss. We do not want her to continue to suffer, but we don't want to give up on her if these symptoms will pass. Any recommendations/suggestions/help is greatly appreciated!--
November 2022 Arkansas
Shorty Case History: https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:1be44131-a36e-31ea-9f5b-cc6f75317185
Welcome to the group!
The ECIR Group provides the best, most up to date information on Cushing's (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.
Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquette, what goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have.
Obviously you're here because you're in a crisis with Shorty. There are a couple of things that jump out at me from your email. I'm going to number them and reference other parts of this welcome letter and I've checked your case history as well - thank you for getting that done so quickly. Photos of the current trim and body condition will help too once you have a moment to get those done.
So here's my list:
1- with an ACTH of 230+ Shorty should be on probably at least 2mg of pergolide (Prascend) not .5mg. You can start titrating her up now going up by a half mg every 4 - 5 days. If she's showing any sign of the veil (more on that below) you can add in APF to help with that; but getting her ACTH under control is crucial right now. Once she's been on the higher dose for 3 weeks you can test her ACTH, insulin and glucose again and see if she's down to a reading of the low 20s which is where we like to see PPID horses at all times.
2- You don't have an entry for Insulin but we can almost guarantee it is not WNL if she has laminitis (which she does, no matter what your vet says based on the symptoms you're describing). As such she needs to be on the Emergency diet - more below - NOW. Triple Crown Safe Starch is NOT guaranteed to be below our recommended 10% ESC+starch limit and we do not recommend it. If you can source Triple Crown Naturals Timothy Balance Cubes those ARE safe and can be fed as a complete replacement for hay at a ratio of 3:4 to hay as they are more calorie dense then hay. Hygain zero is ok, but is not balanced the way the cubes are so you would still need to add vitamins and minerals to it. The TBC only need flax, vitamin E and salt added. Until you can get your hay tested you can soak it (again see the DIET section below) and use rinsed/soaked/rinsed beet pulp as a carrier for minerals if you can't source the TBC).
3 - If Shorty is not in padded boots she needs to be ASAP to help with her comfort level. Have you had her feet x-rayed? Again, just because your vet says she doesn't have laminitis in our experience she does - hoof testing is not a good indication of laminitis in all horses and heat and pulses may or may not be present in laminitis caused by elevated insulin.
4 - Do NOT force her to move. If she wants to lay down let her. Just make sure she has food and water within reach so she has to move as little as possible.
5 - Banamine or bute (NSAIDs) do not help with comfort in this sort of laminitis (see the TRIM section below). After the first week you can wean off of them and replace with Devil's Claw. More information on that here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Pain%20Medication%20and%20Alternatives/Pain%20control,%20switching%20from%20Bute%20to%20Phyto-Quench.pdf and here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Pain%20Medication%20and%20Alternatives/How%20to%20Taper%20Off%20NSAIDs.pdf
6 - The bleeding from the nostril may or may not be NSAID related but would lead me to get her off of them sooner rather than later.
With all of that being said - keep breathing and reading. There is a lot of information in the email below but to summarize:
1 - Diagnosis: you know she's PPID, she's probably also IR but you need bloodwork to confirm that. Meanwhile, get her to a therapeutic dose of pergolide that will bring her ACTH down. Cresty neck and bulging fat = IR, not PPID. She is NOT in a constant state of tying up, she is in pain from laminitis.
2 - Diet - get her on the Emergency Diet ASAP. If she's overweight feed her at 1.5 of her current weight or 2% of ideal weight (whichever is greater) TOTAL per day. Based on your case history she is being fed enough for a 750lb horse which makes her quite overweight for her height. A 13h welsh pony should be
3 - Trim - we need pictures to assist with this, meantime get her in padded boots
4 - Exercise - NONE until she's comfortably moving on her own. She is NOT in a constant state of tying up, she is in pain from laminitis. Even if she were tying up forcing her to move would NOT be the right recommendation.
Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.
DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or EMS/IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.
PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while EMS/IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin and glucose.
The fat-derived hormone leptin is also usually abnormally elevated in insulin resistance but because there are many other things which can lower or increase leptin ECIR is not recommending routine testing for this hormone. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating".
In Europe, adiponectin is tested instead of leptin. Adiponectin helps regulate glucose and fat burning, and maintain insulin sensitivity. Low levels are associated with EMS. It has come to be preferred over leptin because it is not influenced by things like weight or exercise, and also because it was the only factor other than insulin levels that predicted laminitis risk
*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.
*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now.
Treatment: EMS is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed.
DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.
No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:
We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an EMS/IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse.
*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it). The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine (look under the Hay Balancing file if you want professional help balancing). If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers.
There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it.
What you don't feed on the EMS/IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only.
No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for EMS/IR individuals.
We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to EMS/IR equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.
TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.
Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet.
You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.
EXERCISE: The best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.
There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.
If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you.
Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge)
EC Primary Response
Thank you for the response! Our access to dependable vet care is patchy, at best, in our area. Our vet, nor any that I can get ahold of, are able to get out to us for almost two weeks. X-rays are an hour drive away and she would never be able to get in the trailer at this point. Have been trying to get mobile X-ray vet out for over a week and will not return phone calls. I can source the Triple Crown Timothy Balance online for shipping. Nothing available, even with an extended drive.
Working to get picture uploaded.
|1 - 3 of 3|