Sleep deprivation, depression, decreased appetite...PPID related?


Stepht
 

The barn manager told me this morning that Katie hasn't been laying down in her stall or out in the paddock to sleep. This afternoon I checked on her and saw her collapsing as she dozed in her stall, so I strongly suspect she is suffering with sleep deprivation.  I forgot to ask when it was first noticed that she wasn't laying down, but I do not recall brushing shavings off of her in the last few months.

I have had a quick peek around her stall and I don't notice anything that would be bothering her. The horse that is next to her is her paddock mate and Katie is his boss.  I do not think it is pain related. Katie will get down and roll anytime there is plenty of mud and she generally will have muddy patches on both sides of her body.  The last time she came in from the paddock muddy was Friday.

We are boarding in a newish barn.  We moved 6 1/2 months ago from a barn where she was definitely laying down in the stall to sleep.  Most of the horses and most of the people are the same in the new barn.
 
The last two weeks, her appetite has decreased.  She also seems a little depressed.  She had one day last week that she spent weaving in her stall.  It was a rainy day, but no thunder or lightning.  Vet used hoof tester to check for laminitis, but Katie did not react.  She walks as usual, no pulses or heat,  and has not had a weaving incident since. 

Is there any information that links depression, decreased appetite, and sleep deprivation in combination being caused by PPID moving out of control?  Or could this be a thyroid issue? Are there any other health related issues I should be investigating?  Any non health issues?  I had her ACTH, insulin, glucose, leptin, and T4 drawn and will update CH with results when I get them back.

Thank you!


--
Stephanie Thomson August 2, 2016

 

Liberty, Missouri

Katie Case History

Katie Photo Album  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6072

Katie Lab Values Folder  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stephanie%20and%20Katie 


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I suspect you're right that the sleep deprivation is the central issue here. Something is making her uneasy. It could just be the new barn, or combination of new barn and maybe visual problems if her pituitary is pressing on the optic chiasm. The easiest thing to try would be switching stalls. If that doesn't work, her retinas should be examined for edema.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Stepht
 

Thanks Dr. Kellon.  I will see if we can move her into a new stall and (the other thought I had) add another bag of shavings.  Maybe she needs some extra cushion as a lot of us do when we reach her age. :) !
--
Stephanie Thomson August 2, 2016

 

Liberty, Missouri

Katie Case History

Katie Photo Album  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6072

Katie Lab Values Folder  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stephanie%20and%20Katie 


Stepht
 

The barn manager told me this morning that she believes Katie won't lay down not because of pain but because of numbness  and not being able to feel her legs.  Katie does drag her hind feet as she walks around in her stall, but she has always done that to some degree and does not do it when walking outside.  I know the right hind has feeling because she was very irritated by a small tick that was climbing up her fetlock the other day!  I don't think her front legs are numb so that leaves her left hind.  I'm thinking if this is the case, it would have to be arthritis pressing on a nerve.  If it is arthritis would it be of any help to add J-herb, AAKG, or Co Q10  to increase circulation without causing a problem such as too low blood pressure?  Would she have decreased circulation  and/or numbness in one leg due to something other than arthritis?

We have not moved her to another stall yet because we are having some water issues that are being addressed.  I did add 2 bags extra shavings in her stall hoping that would entice her, but so far, no one has witnessed her lay down and she has not had shavings stuck to her as of this morning.  I'm kicking around the idea of installing a game camera to see exactly what she is doing if the repairs are going to take much longer.

I have read somewhere that there is a way to pile shavings, so that a horse who is having trouble getting up is more confident and stable to lay down and get up.  It seems like the shavings are piled higher along the wall and into the stall by a couple of feet.  Does anyone have that information?

Thank you!
--
Stephanie Thomson August 2, 2016

 

Liberty, Missouri

Katie Case History

Katie Photo Album  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6072

Katie Lab Values Folder  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stephanie%20and%20Katie 


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Stephanie,

That's called banking the stall and yes, the  bedding is higher along the wall and slopes down toward the center. You really need to get your vet involved at this point. He/she can do a neurological and lameness exam, check the retinas and the very best thing for anxiety is diazepam (Valium) which could break this cycle.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Lesley Fraser
 

Hi Stephanie

Just a thought, but regarding dragging her foot/feet when she isn’t on solid ground outside and possible loss of feeling, it might be worth having some blood tests done on Katie for tick-borne infections. If you’ve seen a tick crawling up her leg, it’s highly likely there will have been others that have attached themselves to her and dropped off again before you noticed - nymph ticks are the size of a poppy seed, and difficult to spot even when you’re looking for them. The symptoms you describe in Katie, including disrupted sleep patterns, are common in humans with tick-borne infections.



--
Lesley and over the bridge Omar,
11-2012, Sutherland, UK

Omar - Case History


Stepht
 
Edited

Lyme disease is increasing in my state. The county to the south of us has 35 total confirmed cases, which isn't a lot at all in comparison to the eastern states, but definitely a lot for us.  Luckily we haven't had a huge tick problem in the last few years, but this spring they are awful!  And, at Katie's age, she has had plenty of ticks attach over the years.  Thank you for that suggestion and I will talk with vet about that!

--
Stephanie Thomson August 2, 2016

 

Liberty, Missouri

Katie Case History

Katie Photo Album  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6072

Katie Lab Values Folder  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stephanie%20and%20Katie 


Lesley Fraser
 

Yes - it’s increasing everywhere, with climate change helping it along. Lyme and other tick-borne infections have a tendency to be under-reported, so the real infection rate in any area is likely to be higher than the numbers published - they can be tricky to diagnose because the symptoms can be so varied and mimic lots of other things, and of course other things can be in the mix too. Unfortunately, blood tests for these infections are not 100% accurate yet, so negative test results aren't a cast iron guarantee of no infection. Because you’ve seen ticks on Katie and because of her symptoms, perhaps your vet might consider a course of antibiotics for her, even if she gets a negative result. Thank goodness she's got you fighting her corner to get to the root of what’s going on.



--
Lesley and over the bridge Omar,
11-2012, Sutherland, UK

Omar - Case History


Stepht
 

Thank you for that compliment.  I do believe that symptoms have a cause and sometimes the cause has to be searched out.  Sometimes there is a treatment and sometimes there is not, but I want to know the options instead of just saying the symptom is due to "old age".   When Katie had such a hard summer in 2016, I remember seeing the expression on a few people's faces...."she is 24 years old and laminitic.  It's time to euthanize her..."   My research lead me to this group which has been a blessing.

Thanks for the heads up on the accuracy of the test too.  I did not know that!
--
Stephanie Thomson August 2, 2016

 

Liberty, Missouri

Katie Case History

Katie Photo Album  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6072

Katie Lab Values Folder  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stephanie%20and%20Katie