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Sophie mark-ups
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Lavinia Fiscaletti
Hi Lesley,
I've added mark-ups to Sophie's album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=277749 You're doing a good job of backing the toes and moving the breakover closer to where it needs to be. None of the toes are there yet but getting closer, so continue backing them up - esp. at ground level. Can't make much of a comment regarding the flaring of the LH as there is no DP rad, nor any pictures to look at. It's possible that what you are seeing is the contrast between the older, more damaged hoof capsule below and the newer, tighter growth from above - it can be quite a stark contrast and the realization tends to sneak up on you. Sole depth is less than ideal all around, so nothing off the soles at all - even if they appear to be flaking in places. If there are areas on the bottom that are lumpy, leave them alone as well, as those areas are where more new sole is being made to fix a bigger deficit. Heels are underrun across the board, so there is NO vertical height available to move them back. The 5* wedge pad may be too much, try one that has less of an angle. Good that she is now weighting her heels on the hinds 🙂
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Thanks for marking the tips of the frogs. All of them are elongated, with the tips stretched forward of where they actually should be located. Just be aware of this, no need to trim them - just wait for them to start to shrivel and detach at the tips, at which point you can snip off the excess.
LF lateral radiograph: This one has some true bony column rotation, which is when the tip of the coffin bone has dropped out of alignment with the rest of the leg bones above it. The pink line shows how the bones should line up and ends where the breakover should be if the sole depth was adequate. The purple line follows the actual alignment of the bones - note how it bulges above the position of the pink line. Green line shows where the dorsal wall should be (it's NOT a trim line). Solid blue line is where to take the toe back to, with the blue X being the remaining excess toe out ahead of where it needs to be. Red line is under the front half of the foot where nothing should be removed. Back half of the foot should be lowered along the lime line to correct the bony rotation without removing any sole from the already-too-thin sole in the front half of the foot. RF lateral rad: Continue to back the toe a tad more, rolling it at ground level. This one appears to have the thinnest sole, so guard every millimeter it has. Pink line shows how the bony columns lines up and ends where the breakover would be if the sole was thick enough. The ball at the tip of the frog is located under the leading edge of the coffin bone, so it gives you an idea of where the coffin bone is located. Red line shows where the bottom of the foot should be, if there was enough sole depth. Blue solid line shows where to round the toe off to.
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RF DP: Blue areas highlight the old flaring wall that remains - it can be rasped away.
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LH lateral rad: Better sole depth than on the RF. Toe can definitely move back more -Â to the blue line. Pink line again shows where the bony column wants to align, while the purple line follows the actual alignment. HPA is broken back but I believe it's improved from the last time. Hard to make a direct comparison as she wasn't standing on the LH in the last rads. Yellow line #1 runs thru the coronary band, while #2 points to the extensor process. The distance between them denotes the amount of sinking.Â
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RH lateral rad: The rad isn't a true lateral as you can see both heel bulbs and both of the wings of the coffin bone - means the view was shot from slightly behind the foot. This makes it hard to interpret exactly what's going on. Sole depth needs to be preserved, back the toe to the solid blue line.
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Good that she is more comfortable in general - tells you she's moving in the right direction overall. Unfortunately, it isn't always a linear journey
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-- Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR) Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge Jan 05, RI Moderator ECIR |
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Lavinia Fiscaletti
Reposting this for Lesley:
Lavinia,
Where should the tip of the frog be relative to the tip of the coffin bone?
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The vet markups indicate the LF has a 12.24 palmar angle and the right front has a 9.93 degree palmar angle. Does this mean the heels are to long?
You had said in prior mark up to take heels down if they were 1 inch or deeper/longer in the frog sulcus?
The farrier did not touch the heels last time and I have not either.
Thank you,
Lesley Bludworth
-- Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR) Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge Jan 05, RI Moderator ECIR |
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Lavinia Fiscaletti
Hi Lesley,
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In a healthy foot, the tip of the frog is approximately 1/2" to 1" behind the leading edge of the coffin bone, depending on the size of the feet. When the heels run under and the toes run forward, all of the structures on the bottom of the foot run forward. As you push/coax the feet back into a healthier configuration, all of the structures relax back toward their original locations.
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The angles the rads were shot from weren't as precise as they could have been, which impacts both the information they provide (or don't provide) and the ability to interpret them correctly. The machine is being placed to low, so there is a lot of the block being included as opposed to more of the leg. Including the pasterns would have been a lot more helpful as you could then assess whether the horse was standing squarely on the limb or not. Aiming the beam upward or from slightly behind the limb again gives you different information than shooting the view from a true lateral position.
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I really don't understand how the vet determined those palmer angles. Regardless of what the actual angles are, it's the bony column alignment that is the important thing to look at. Yes, there is some degree of sinking present on all four feet but the angles that the rads were shot from, and the lack of dorsal wall markers made it difficult to show that correctly in the mark-ups. Generally, you start by leaving about 1" of depth in the collateral grooves at their deepest points and 3/4" of depth at the true tip of the frog as that would give you correct sole depth across the entire foot and keep the coffin bone in its proper orientation. In a horse with seriously unhealthy frogs (severe thrush or other pathology), you may need more to help protect the frogs as they may be too painful to be able to accommodate any pressure). Those are general ballparks to get things started safely, then you start paying more attention to the individual foot to get the proper measurements for that limb.
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You can use scotch tape or bandage tape to attach (not duct tape) a marker to the dorsal wall. A length of chain (like from an overhead light pull chain) works well as it will follow the contours of the dorsal wall well. Barium paste will draw a line from top to bottom well. See this link for more on rads:
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Her heels are going to need to stand up straighter and move back under her but you can't sacrifice the HPAs in order to get there. Going to need hoof photos to be able to specify what the next steps will need to be going forward.
-- Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR) Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge Jan 05, RI Moderator ECIR |
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<You can use scotch tape or bandage tape to attach (not duct tape) a marker to the dorsal wall.>
Lavinia, why not duct tape? It's what I usually use to attach a piece of wire to the dorsal wall. -- Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID) Canberra, Australia 2010 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles  |
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Lavinia Fiscaletti
Depending on the brand, it may be metallic, which would interfere with the rads.
-- Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR) Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge Jan 05, RI Moderator ECIR |
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