Topics

Stabul 1


Sandy
 

I'm curious - I see a lot of folks using the Stabul 1 pellets.  They are made with soybeans and alfalfa which I thought both were not great for PPID horses.  Can someone clarify for me?
--
Sandy Kemp
Northeast Pennsylvania
Crystal Blue PPID/IR
Tiffany PPID
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sandy%20and%20Tiffany 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sandy%20and%20Crystal%20Blue


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Sandy,

You may find this past conversation helpful: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/topic/68607530#244473




Mary M.
 

HI, 
I have been feeding Stabul 1 as carrer for minerals to my IR Morgan mare for a few years without a problem.  As to ingredients, i too was concerned at first. 
This is my understanding. others feel free to correct if i am in error.
The soybean is just the hulls not actual bean. The amount of alfalfa is less than 10% and within acceptable range for IR. Because it is propietary blend ingredients are not listed in order of amounts like human foods. that is to keep others from copying formula. 
The corn is the distilled grains--which is the protein portion left over from distilling all the sugar starch out. 

If you have other questions feel free to contact Randy at Nuzu. He is typically very responsive on questions. 
--
Mary Marzec, Chelsea MI, 2012
Mary/Katie Case History


Sandy
 

Thank you Sherry and Mary.  This helps me better understand.  I was concerned on the alfalfa/soy but looks like the Stabul-1 might be an option.  It's interesting on the different flavors they offer (banana??!), peppermint and fenugreek.   I already order things from Chewy and they are goo to deal with.  So I'll have to decide between this product and the one I'm using Poulin Carb Safe (which I have to travel a ways to get). 

--
Sandy Kemp
Northeast Pennsylvania
Crystal Blue PPID/IR
Tiffany PPID
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sandy%20and%20Tiffany 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sandy%20and%20Crystal%20Blue


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Sandy,

The Stabul-1 is a much better choice than the Poulin as it's higher in fat than we recommend.




Sandy
 

Thank you Sherry - when I run out of the Poulin, I'll just order the Stabul-1.   I appreciate your input very much.
--
Sandy Kemp
Northeast Pennsylvania
Crystal Blue PPID/IR
Tiffany PPID
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sandy%20and%20Tiffany 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sandy%20and%20Crystal%20Blue


Starshine Ranch
 

Hi All,    I read the both conversation strings about Stabul 1 and get that it is better than the Plus.  Would using Stabul 1 be a better carrier than Timothy pellets for supplements?  I generally only add 1 heaping cup of Timothy pellets and one cup of LMF Low NSC along with flaxseed, vitamins and salt.

--
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara


 

Hi, Linda. 

Timothy pellets can only be safely used after testing and balancing them as part of the total diet. They are typically high in iron and don’t have added copper and zinc to balance that iron. Seasonally timothy pellets can also be higher in ESC than ideal. 

For convenience and reliability, a safe bagged feed as a carrier is better, cheaper than testing to confirm ESC and mineral content, and less labor than balancing.  Here’s the list from Files: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/5%20Core%20Diet/2.%20Safe%20Feeds/Safe%20Bagged%20Feeds.pdf

Your case history doesn’t show that you’re balancing diets. Is that still true? Just a reminder that the emergency diet is meant to be a short term diet, not a permanent diet. 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Julanne Baker
 

I am curious as to the amount of Stabul 1 to feed. My overweight 1200# mare is currently being fed 1# of the unapproved Nutrena Ration Balance per day. If I switch to the Stabul 1, can I continue at that rate or should I follow the feeding instructions provided on the bag? She is basically on a Timothy hay only diet. I would like her to lose 50# without any medication.

--
Julanne in Florida 2020


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Julanne,

Without a case history that's an impossible question to answer.  How much should she weigh?  How much hay is she being fed?  Are you balancing her minerals to a hay analysis?  If you want her to lose weight you need to feed 1.5%of her current weight or 2% of her ideal weight (whichever is greater) until she reaches her target weight.  That daily intake includes all hay an concentrates and we normally focus here on a hay based diet that's mineral balanced and the only concentrate needed in most cases is just enough carrier to get the minerals in.




Julanne Baker
 

Sorry, Sherry, I really meant to be asking whether the stabul1 could be fed at the same rate as the Nutrena Ration Balance. I have read that you do not recommend the Nutrena, but do recommend the Stabul1.
fyi, as I said, she really needs to lose about 50 # from her current 1200# which would put her at about 1150 and a likely body score of 5, per my vet. Altogether, she is now getting 20# of Timothy hay and 1# of the ration balancer which is actually less than 2% of her target weight.
Last fall she tested IR (55 at Cornell) for the first time . My vet suggested I continue her diet and add Insulinwise, which I did. I see you also don’t recommend that and I don’t think it helped a bit. The next step we will take is adding Metformin and curtailing the Insulinwise,which I was trying to avoid but will do if her insulin is still high when we test again at the end of April. ( since she is not losing weight on the diet, no pasture in several years and is ridden/lunged 3 miles a day 4 days a week at a slow foxtrot, I assume her insulin is still abnormal.)
i intend to attempt to do a case history when I get my new labs, i did not have all of the information I needed to do the case history until recently when the vet’s office finally(!)sent me her previous lab reports. I also realize I need to get her hay tested. I assume that would be every time we buy a new load? My barn only has two horses so they buy the hay monthly.
Thanks for the help you all provide. There is so much information you have on your website . It’s a blessing for me but also overwhelming to try to digest it all.
Oreo is a coming 18 year old Missouri Fox Trotter mare, 16.1 1/2 hh


-- 
Julanne in Florida 2020


Cindy Giovanetti
 

Stabul 1 is not a ration balancer but essentially a pelleted hay replacement that is balanced to itself.  So you would replace hay with Stabul 1 at a 1-to-1 ratio.  If you feed a pound of Stabul 1, you’d need to remove a pound of hay, but it won’t require rebalancing.

 

Cindy

 


--
Cindy, Oden, and Eeyore, North Texas
On ECIR protocol since 2/19
https://www.facebook.com/LifeWithOden/
History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20and%20Oden
Photos:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91125


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Julanne,

55 was her insulin level?  The correct diet is needed to help bring down insulin into a better range and that would not include the Nutrena product.  We also do not recommend feeding less than the 1.5% OR 2% as not feeding enough can cause issues.  You can read more about that here: https://www.ecirhorse.com/DDT+E-diet.php.  Is the hay being weighed?  Are you soaking it?

You can start a case history now as it will help us see what her diet was when she was first tested and what it is now when she is retested.  That will help us help you figure out what needs to be tightened up.



Starshine Ranch
 

Thank you.  I don't know about the emergency diet.  I JUST got the results back from the latest ACTH/IR tests and will be updating my case histories.  No, I haven't done any balancing but I will switch to Stabul1 and/or beet pulp.
--
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara


 

Hi, Linda,
Information about the emergency diet was included in the welcome letter you got back in late October or early November. Here's the link:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/256967
The Emergency Diet is a temporary diet for new members while they get a feeding plan in place that includes only safe forage and bagged feeds. The goal is to immediately remove any potential dietary triggers for laminitis.

My horses ate LMF Low NSC Stage 1 as a carrier. I didn't mix it with Stabul1, another carrier. Neither carrier will balance your horses' diet: that takes the right minerals in the right amounts. Minerals are fed with a safe carrier like ODTBC, Stabul1, RSR Beet pulp and the others on the list.  

 My horses will eat just about anything in a handful of Stabul1, including many meds. If you want to try different flavors (fenugreek and banana are favorites here), check out the Stabul1 website. They will send small samples. They also sell 20 pound bags to try so you're not stuck with a 50 bag of something your horses won't eat. Once you know their flavor, you can order from Chewy.com.
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Starshine Ranch
 

Thank you... I just ordered some Stabul 1 samples.
--
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara


Sherry Morse
 

Hi Julanne,

For those of us who don't have pages on our devices, would you be able to save the file as a PDF (you should have a "print to PDF" option or be able to use an online converter like Zamzar to do this) and then load the PDF to your folder (your link will stay the same since you have it set to the folder so no need to mess with the signature again).  That would be really helpful.




Julanne Baker
 

I finally downloaded my case history up to now. Any advice about changes are welcome. II have learned from this group that several of the things I am using may be bad for Oreo, eg: Nutrena Ration Balance and Platinum Performance Equine.  If there are others, please comment.
Because her weight is not budging, I am also assuming her insulin is still high and after her bloodwork will probably put her on Metformin.
I will be getting Timothy  her hay tested as well.
Again, thanks so much for your help!
--
Julanne in Florida 2020
CaseHistory
Https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Julanne%20and%20Oreo


Julanne Baker
 


--
Julanne in Florida 2020
CaseHistory
Https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Julanne%20and%20Oreo


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Julanne, 

So that we don't hijack Sandy's thread, I have started a new one for you here with my suggestions based on Oreo's Case History:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/topic/was_stabul_1_now_julanne/81999090?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,0,81999090

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album