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Stabul 1
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I have been feeding my IR mare 1/2 of a pound of Stabul 1 to get her to eat her supplements/meds. It’s on the emergency diet safe feeds. I also feed U balance balancer per directions on bag. It also is on the safe feed balancers. I am getting her hay tested to see what she needs for vitamin/minerals and may be able to stop the balancer. She will not eat beet pulp. She loves the Stabul 1. I am starting her on Metformin and may have to increase the amount to be able to get her to eat it. Is 1/2 pound to much? 3/4 pound? I did a case history. It is 4 weeks since her first laminatis episode.
-- PamHinWi2023 |
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Hi, Pam.
We need to see Luna's CH link in your automatic signature. That way, ECIR volunteers can refer to it to give you the best answers to your questions. The link you need to copy and paste is: https://ch.ecirhorse.org/case-history.php?id=77 Go to your Subscription page that includes your automatic signature at https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/editsub Scroll down to the Signature box and paste the link below your name. Don't leave the page until after you scroll all the way to the bottom and SAVE! Thanks from all ECIR volunteers. -- Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012 ECIR Group Moderator Diamond's CH at ch.ECIRHorse.org Cayuse and Diamond Old Case Histories pre-2023Cayuse Photos Diamond Photos |
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Sherry Morse
Hi Pam, We recommend you feed as little a carrier as possible. Do you have a link to your case history that you can add to your signature so we can review your current feeding program, horse's weight, current bloodwork, etc.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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Hi Pam! Are you weighing the Stabul 1 with a scale or scooping it with a measuring cup? At one point your refer to 1/2 cup and another place a pound. If you can do everything by weight, that’s ideal. Could you please post some photos to document her body score? From your description, it sounds like she would be much happier having less weight to support with her hooves so thank you for accommodating my many questions. Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response July 2012
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
Martha and Logo |
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Hi Pam,
In addition to Martha's questions, what were her lab results and can you add them to the Case History please? While Stabul 1 should be fine in small amounts (the amount depends on the horse but 1/2 lb is not a lot), a very few owners have reported increased hoof pain suggestive of higher insulin that went away when they stopped it...I can think of just 1 horse that may have not tolerated it well. Some horses are just more sensitive to certain dietary triggers than others. As Sherry said, feed as little carrier as possible to get her to eat her supplements and the Metformin, and subtract the weight of the carrier from her daily hay allowance. Other carrier options are soy hull pellets or Triple Crown Naturals Timothy Balance cubes (you can soak or steam with hot water to break these down into a mash). If you mix either of those, or beet pulp(?), in to the Stabul 1 you are reducing the potential effect of the Stabul 1, and can therefore feed a bit more. Soy hull pellets are ready to feed within 5 min of soaking, no rinsing required. -- Kirsten and Shaku (EMS + PPID) and Snickers (EMS) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album Snickers' Case History Snickers' Photo Album |
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I will have to get her test results from the vet. So do I have this right? If I add beet pulp, soy hulls or TC cubes I can keep Stabul at the same 1/2 pound, and it will lessen the potential insulin rise of the Stabul or do I need to lower the amount of Stabul I am giving her and replace it with one of the above?
-- PamHinWi2023 https://ch.ecirhorse.org/case-history.php?id=77 |
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Hi Pam,
The suggestion is to replace some or all of the Stabul with the suggested feeds. I used the timothy balance cubes because they are easy and available to me. There’s more work involved with soaking and rinsing the beet pulp and I haven’t found a good source for soy hull pellets. You can purchase them online; the shipping is high but brings them into line with other premium feeds. Half a cup, as you stated in one CH entry, would be fine. Half a pound, maybe not, especially twice daily. Here is another approach to determining your horse’s weight. You can either measure with a cm tape, measure in inches and multiply each measurement by 2.54 to determine the measurement in centimeters or get whichever measurements you can and ask us for help. An accurate measurement of of her height to the withers would be useful as well. We can compare these values to what you have entered into your CH. -- Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response July 2012
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
Martha and Logo |
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Sherry Morse
Hi Pam, You should be feeding no more than 2% of ideal body weight per day. If you add in something else you will need to reduce the amount of Stabul-1 you are feeding. This is why knowing exactly what everything that is going into the horse weighs is so important.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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I measured Lunas weight using her heart girth and body length etc and she weighs 1035 pounds. She is a gypsy Vanner Icelandic cross and is about 13.2 hands. I posted pictures in her history. According to vet she should be around 800 lbs. so how many pounds should she be fed? 1.5 percent of actual weight or 2 percent of desired weight or?
-- PamHinWi2023 https://ch.ecirhorse.org/case-history.php?id=77 |
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Sherry Morse
Hi Pam, You feed 1.5% of current weight or 2% of ideal weight WHICHEVER IS GREATER until the horse reaches the ideal weight. In this case that would be 16lbs a day (2% of ideal weight). That 16lbs includes EVERYTHING fed - both hay and concentrates. If she does not lose weight eating the 16lbs you may need to reduce it further but we do not recommend going below the 1.5% number.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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Updated Lunas case history with accurate weight, pictures, and test results. I don’t understand the test results. It looks like her insulin was higher a few weeks after the initial laminitis episode. Is it really high or?
-- PamHinWi2023 https://ch.ecirhorse.org/case-history.php?id=77 |
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Hi Pam, Looking forward to seeing her hoof photos and radiographs as well as a hint as to where to look for her insulin values. Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response July 2012
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
Martha and Logo |
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Hi, I think I figured out how to put her pdf test result documentation on. I thought the T4 was insulin? Please tell me if my vet didn’t send everything.
I have radiographs already on there. We will try and get photos of her hoofs. She has so much feathering it is hard. For her weight we did heart girth x heart girth x body length divided by 330! Please forgive me and thank you for your patience and trying to figure this all out. And now we’ve come up with another problem she doesn’t wanna eat her grain with the metformin in it. We have been mixing with cherry milk of magnesia. Any more ideas? Doesn’t like beet pulp or TC Timothy cubes. -- PamHinWi2023 https://ch.ecirhorse.org/case-history.php?id=77 |
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Hi Pam,
You can move the feathers away from the coronary band,and secure with maybe a bit of duct tape, or masking tape, or even a strip of vet wrap.Something just to keep the coronary band visible. -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario 2002 |
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Sherry Morse
Hi Pam, T4 is Thyroid. Your bloodwork results only have one insulin result which is listed on page 6 and is 15. Was that test done fasting or not? If it was fasting that result is high, if it was not it is a good level for an IR horse. I also notice that your vet has Luna's weight listed as 800lbs which is heavy for a 13.1 hand pony, but is not 1000lbs so that's a good thing as it's less weight that she needs to lose. To get good photos of her feet you can use panty hose or leg wraps to get all the feathering out of the way and make sure you trim the hair around her coronary bands as well so you can really see them.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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Hi, Pam.
I don't know if anyone had luck feeding metformin mixed with MOM. The usual goal is to syringe ground metformin mixed with MOM because the mixture is less likely to burn the mouth. I used quite a bit of MOM, 20-30 ml. After syringing, don't forget to rinse the mouth with warm water. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/4%20Insulin%20Resistance/Metformin/Metformin%2008.08.20%20FINAL.pdf -- Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012 ECIR Group Moderator Diamond's CH at ch.ECIRHorse.org Cayuse and Diamond Old Case Histories pre-2023Cayuse Photos Diamond Photos |
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