Topics

testing during seasonal rise while on EPM meds

vicky monen
 

Hello,
My guy is presenting off in his front end today.  I have  not drawn his blood work yet for the seasonal rise.  He has recently relapsed with EPM and is still currently on the EPM medication.  Will the EPM medication cause any issues with the results of the lab work needed for IR/Cushings?  I am unsure if the lameness I am seeing is from IR/Cushings or the EPM, but its new symptoms. I was holding off on running the labs until he was finished with the EPM meds, but that wouldn't be until the end of the month. When is the best time to test during the seasonal rise?  I just want to make sure The EPM meds wont affect the Insulin and ACTH results?

Also, there have been a few green acorns starting to fall in his paddock.  What are the chances that a few acorns ingested would cause an insulin issue?

Vicky Monen and Samson

Aug 2015, Alpharetta Ga.

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1226

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Vicky%20and%20Samson

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

What is he on? None of them will affect ACTH.

Your vet can easily separate hoof pain from EPM with a nerve block if need be.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

vicky monen
 


-- He is currently on the 28-30 days of Decoquinate powder.  He already finished the 10day Decoquinate/Levimisole paste.

Question, the acorns....  Barn manager said that the acorns will not affect them unless he eats mass quantities in order for acorns to be toxic.  Can acorns in small quantities affect insulin?

Thank you!

Vicky Monen and Samson

Aug 2015, Alpharetta Ga.

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1226

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Vicky%20and%20Samson

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

No known effect of the decoquinate.

Acorn toxicity seems to vary from year to year but they are sky high in starch so definitely an issue for EMS.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Stefanie Delasandro <sdel4521@...>
 

Vicky,

 I have two horses that have been caught eating oak leaves a couple of times this year.  The entire oak tree is toxic, and it doesn't always take much become they can become more sensitive to it.  In one mare the first episode triggered an EPM relapse, or muscle weakness that mimicked neurological symptoms, as well as severe edema.   The extreme muscle wasting was evident after the edema went away (she dropped from a 5.5 BCS to close to a 3 BCS).  My other mare didn't have as severe edema, but it affected her tendons and ligaments, especially her fetlocks.  


--
Stefanie D.
central TX
Jewel's Case History

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Hi Stephanie,

The symptoms of oak toxicity involve the GI tract and kidneys (and laminitis from starch). Sounds like something else going on here. Sounds more like hypoglycin A toxicity from Maple/Box Elder.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Stefanie Delasandro <sdel4521@...>
 

We don’t have those trees.  Each time it has been directly after they have been seen eating one of the live oaks.  Once was when they were in a dry lot and the source was a downed limb.  I’ve also seen numerous symptom lists that also cite muscle weakness and edema in the neck and abdomen as symptoms of oak poisoning.

--
Stefanie D.
central TX
Jewel's Case History

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/toxicology/quercus-poisoning/overview-of-quercus-poisoning

Weakness is very nonspecific. There is no staggering, etc. that might look neurological. The edema in oak poisoning occurs in dependent portions of the body, like the brisket, legs, or head and neck if it is being held low, and is caused by the low blood protein resulting from renal failure. There is no  muscle wasting, no tendon or ligament involvement.

In any case, this discussion is OT for this group.

We have had several cases of acorn associated laminitis over the years with no indication of oak toxicity per se.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001