Updated blood work and Pasture analysis


Rose@...
 

Aloha

I had blood work done on Luluka in August 2021.  With the guidance of this group, I had new bloodwork done this August 2022 where the vet asked Cornell to quantify the insulin greater than 200 value.  Well.... It came in at 771 ulU/mL.   Her leptin baseline is also high at 38.16 ng/mL.  She has been on the metformin HCL (5 pills 2x a day 1,000 MG tablets) for about 3 steady weeks now.  We had a bit of hit and miss in the beginning as I tried to see if there was an easier way than syringing the meds into her.  There isn't.  Anyway, she is also on Duralactin Equine Joint Plus, APF Equine Adaptogen Formula from Auburn Labs, and Vitamin E, Magnesium Oxide and Phyto-Quench all from Uckele.   I have her off the bute, she gets soaked Timothy hay, rinsed beet pulp, timothy pellets and Triple crown timothy cubes.  There is a HUGE improvement in the last week (approx 2 weeks since she has been on the metformin and the above mentioned supplements).  It took almost a month for me to get the last blood tests from the vet.  I have a different vet coming out to draw blood next week Tuesday to see how the insulin and leptin numbers look.  My farrier who is on a 3 week rotation with her thought she had lost 30-40 pounds when he was here this week Monday.  Anything in the above mentioned I should be tweaking?

Also when Luluka first foundered I was locally told to cut her pasture short to somewhat restrict who intake of grass.   After going on this forum it was suggested that cut grass has more sugar as it is stressed grass.   So I tested my pasture grass.  I tested both my cut pasture and a neighboring overgrown pasture.   I don't see that the sugar or carbs in my grass is that high.   I was planning on scrubbing my smaller 4000 sf cut pasture into a dry lot for her.  But I live on the wet side of a tropical island, so there will be a lot of maintenance to keep it weed and grass free.  Can you look at the pasture analysis and let me know what you think.  In the last week I have been letting her have 1 hour of pasture time (she is in a 10x20 stall otherwise).  Her mental attitude is better when I can let her have some time with my other horse.  In the last two days only she is actually walking in the pasture and lightly grazing for that hour.   Prior to that she didn't even leave her stall, her pasture mate would come in to visit her.  Do I need to go to a dry lot?   I would like to have her out more than the hour if possible.    It doesn't look like my grass is very rich at all.  Anyway guidance as always is appreciated.  I don't see that I can attach the blood work and pasture analysis  to this post but I did put it in my case history file.   Is that the appropriate way to do this?  

Mahalo

Rose and Luluka
--
Rose D in Hawaii 2022

case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rose%20and%20Luluka
Photos:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=277362


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

 Hi Rose,

Are the TC timothy cubes she is getting the Naturals Balanced cubes? If so, why are you feeding her those other things. That would be a complete diet with no supplements necessary except E, salt and flax.

A pasture analysis is a snapshot in time since pasture is a living tissue, unlike hay which is set once it cures. Grass undergoes huge changes over the day and from day to day based on weather conditions. You can leave her out as long as and as often as you like as long as you use a sealed muzzle.  Dry lot or track system around the pasture where her buddy is should be the goal but until then you can use a sealed muzzle.

You could get away with letting her graze, maybe even for a couple years, but you're playing with a loaded gun until her numbers are all normal and she is in regular work.  You should consult a landscaper for ways to covert your smaller area into a grass free place if that's the way you want to go.  It can be done.

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001
The first step to wisdom is "I don't know."


Rose@...
 

Yes the Timothy cubes are the triple crown balanced ones. I had not realized they were considered fully balanced.  Some of the supplements were / are for pain management as quite literally she has been down more than up for the past two months.  Prior to the phyto quench she had been on bute for a year. I don’t have access to a lot of large animal vets where I am.  So some of the supplements came from hand outs on the forum for pain management etc.  My vet here felt that she shouldn’t have flax as the higher caloric content.  I also work full time so cannot use a sealed muzzle as I can’t always control my time to manage it so a dry lot it is. 
--
Rose D in Hawaii 2022

case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rose%20and%20Luluka
Photos:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=277362


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

She needs the flax for omega-3 fatty acids. A half ounce dose (1 ounce by volume) of ground flax isn't going to add significantly to her calories and it's very safe for IR.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001
The first step to wisdom is "I don't know."


Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Rose,

You did upload your analysis results correctly, thanks! 

But did you put your cut grasses on dry ice immediately, and ensure it stayed frozen all the way to the lab?  If not, your carb results will be inaccurate (too low).  We have seen time and time again that allowing pasture causes laminitis in horses with EMS.  Luluka's last insulin result is one of the highest I've seen here, and IMHO it's not worth the risk of having her on pasture, even muzzled (unless it's fully blocked and she cannot eat).  A dry track around the pasture so she can follow her buddy but not eat grass, with soaked hay hung in nets would be a great set-up for her.  It's much easier for horses (and humans) to accept "no grass, ever" than it is to allow some grass here and there.

It sounds like you've made tremendous progress, well done!  I'm excited to see what your next bloodwork shows.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album