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Vinnie's latest and status


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Hi all thought I would check in about Vinnie.

His CH is updated. I got new hay and preliminary NIR result is uploaded in my hay folder. I am going to go with the orchard as we believe that the orchard/tim may come in higher than 10% when the wet chem results are in. HUGE shout out to Cass for her guidance and mentoring me through the hay situation and even pulling a test on some hay local to her which is about 1.5 hrs away from me ūü•į

After chatting with Dr Kellon on the side, we believe that Vinnie is an invokana candidate so I am working to wean him off the 250# dose of banamine (nsaids contraindicated) and trying to bribe Vinnie into eating Phyto-quench. (Minor success today) I have some work to do here to ensure consistency..he stopped eating Phyto-quench when we started prascend and the veil seems to prevail a little.

He too won't finish his odtbc cubes if they are wet so I am trying a combo of wet and dry to entice him. He loves them dry but I am afraid of choke and honestly him not getting enough fluids to compensate for the dry cubes.
 
He is on metformin and will be getting new bloodwork hopefully soon in the next week or so to see how the metformin is working on bringing his insulin down.
I am not forced handwalking him yet as he is still fragile.

Here is some video comparing the last few days and I think we are stablizing at this point. 
https://youtu.be/NPd4xsKNB0o

I am so grateful for this group!! Thanks again!!!!!!
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

I forgot to mention, I purchased a centurion mini pulse unit and I am wondering if it would be ok to start using that now? I feel like Vinnie may really benefit from it?
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Tonight after 32 hours since the last 250# banamine dose he gave me that look, and was pretty slow to move. So I gave him a 250# dose just now. 

I read the weaning protocol.. since he isn't eating the full dose of phyto quench and he eats maybe 2/3 of his odtbc cubes in the morning and the pm is a crap shoot if he will eat them at all. (I have tried it all, taste tempers, wet cubes half dry cubes, anise oil, lmf low carb complete on top, cocosoya granules on top... stabul 1 peppermint on top, cutting up hay to make haulage and mixing it in,, and sometimes he eats them but lately last two nights he hasn't really eaten them. Today I removed laminox to see if that was the issue, but he looked at me and he wants his hay in the evening.  Bith meals have is jherb (Glycocemic eq in the am and laminox at night) I am feeding Glycocemic eq dry by itself and he was eating that, but today he ate about half the dose. This was before I mixed a separate concoction of the Phyto-quench.

Yes I look like a waitress with 5 different containers of the several courses of Vinnies meals (lol)  

This veil thing has got me almost beat...:) yes still on apf.  I tried splitting the dose to see if that works now.

So.. if I can't wean him off pain meds completely is that a show stopper for invokana?
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

A few things here. At this point his pickiness is less likely to be from Prascend and more likely to be from long term NSAID use and gastric ulcers. I can see on the videos that he still tries to protect the one side of his RF when he lands but it varies from day to day. He was best on 1/6 but better on 1/7 than on 1/5 so it's questionable if the banamine is doing anything. The banamine is also interfering with Jiaogulan.

Does he get any turnout time? He moves a bit better the longer he is moving which points to a circulatory issue.

How much does he drink in a day? How much salt is he eating? He needs to drink well to be on Invokana.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Nancy,

Yes, the Banamine means no Invokana.

You could try him on 3 or 4 days of omeprazole to see if his  stomach is an issue.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


 

Nancy, not to give you something else to do but I often screen my cubes, which I‚Äôve also seen suggested for someone on another thread. ¬†The cubes get ‚Äėsoaked‚Äô but the screenings do not. ¬†Then I can safely feed the screenings dry. ¬†I would try sprinkling the dry screenings on top of cubes that have been expanded with hot water or steam to see if you can entice him to tolerate the damper feed. ¬†I‚Äôve also put dry cubes in a toy. ¬†They come out one at a time and I haven‚Äôt had any issues with that. ¬†
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 06:57 AM, Martha McSherry wrote:
Nancy, not to give you something else to do but I often screen my cubes, which I‚Äôve also seen suggested for someone on another thread. ¬†The cubes get ‚Äėsoaked‚Äô but the screenings do not. ¬†Then I can safely feed the screenings dry. ¬†I would try sprinkling the dry screenings on top of cubes that have been expanded with hot water or steam to see if you can entice him to tolerate the damper feed. ¬†I‚Äôve also put dry cubes in a toy. ¬†They come out one at a time and I haven‚Äôt had any issues with that. ¬†
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 

 
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

HI Dr Kellon,

He is not getting turn out time right now butnhw does have a 24,×24 paddock.  I can turn him out in an arena that is gen use to see if that helps. If this is circulatory can my mini pulse help that? My red light does seem to help as well.

He is getting about 2oz of salt daily plus what is in his minerals.  I see him drinking  water, and based on his urination patterns and urine appearance  i would say he is well hydrated. he has a big 30 gallon ( i think) tub with a float so i can't say how much total.  I try to give him about 2 gallons in his cubes. 



--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

I started him on ulcerguard did 3 days and then I got sidetracked because of time issues having to wait 2 hrs after othe meds.  I will try again.
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Why are you waiting 2 hours after other meds?  Acid suppression by 83% is still present at 24 hours after dosing https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10696296/ .

There is some evidence that horses on all hay diets should have hay access restricted for a few hours BEFORE giving the omeprazole https://thehorse.com/19252/impact-of-dosage-and-diet-on-omeprazole-efficacy/ .
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

I thought it interfered with absorption of other meds.. I give metformin first and then wait 2 hrs to give omeprazole.  Should I be doing the opposite?
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

I will note, I am willing to do *anything* to help Vinnie feel better.  I am just so worried about him. 
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Hi Nancy,

I'd definitely try turnout. That would also help with mobilizing any collections.  PEMF does increase nitric acid but the effect disappears when the treatment stops. The red light primarily has effects on superficial acupuncture points, doesn't penetrate very far and won't affect circulation.

Sounds like he's drinking well enough that you could give him cubes dry if that is what he prefers.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

It doesn't interfere with absorption but omeprazole might block the uptake of the drug by tissues to some extent. This has only been demonstrated in cell culture and the clinical significance, if any, is unknown. More importantly, we don't know the duration of the effect or if it is related to the plasma concentration of the drug(s). The omeprazole works best when given after an overnight fast. I honestly don't know how all of that might translate into the best schedule for giving them! Maybe wait until you get your follow up labs to decide on a gastric ulcer plan. There are alternatives to omeprazole if the metformin is working.

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 


TERRI JENNINGS
 

I‚Äôve been the ‚Äúwaitress‚ÄĚ for my boys as well. It‚Äôs so frustrating when you have gone thru all the different, carriers and ¬†combinations. To top it off sometimes they will eat something prepared a specific way once or twice and then will not ever touch it again! ¬†I have never used PhytoQuench but is it possible to syringe it? ¬†That‚Äôs what I resorted to with my picky boys. It‚Äôs made it much less stressful and they‚Äôve gotten so used to it that they no longer fight it.¬†

Good luck, Vinnie is lucky to have you. 
--
Terri Jennings with Teeny, Finn and Elliott
Arcata, CA
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Terri%20and%20Teeny
Joined 2019