Topics

Whole Oats


Carlye
 

Hi all!  We are having trouble convincing Jolene to eat her supplements, and losing weight is not an option for her.  We switched her to beet pulp after we discovered her PPID back in October, and she is just not taking to it.  I've added salt to try and tempt her, but she essentially eats the Herb for Horses supplement she's been on for the last couple of years, and leaves everything else.  I have read that whole oats are safe, and thought of maybe trying her on that.  Any thoughts for or against?

Thanks!
--
Carlye
Ontario, 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jolene 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=256885


Portagecreek
 

In my opinion, all horses can tolerate starches differently. I feed my 2 IR horses 1/2 cup of whole oats and barley for breakfast and supper, with their ration balancer. Most of what you would read would say that is a big no-no, but they are thriving and managing their weights well. It drilled down to being the only option for me as I wanted to eliminate all soy and didn't want to feed beet pulp or alfalfa after doing lots of research and a holistic equine nutrition course.
--
Natalie

New Brunswick, Canada

2019

Case History: Tane's case history

Photos: Tane's photos


Portagecreek
 

ETA if I could find a soy free hay pellet in my part of Canada, I would likely feed that but so far it's impossible.
--
Natalie

New Brunswick, Canada

2019

Case History: Tane's case history

Photos: Tane's photos


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Carlye,

Have you tried the ODTB cubes? Do you have any insulin results?  Whole oats are not safe in your situation coming off recent laminitis, no exercise, no insulin testing.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

 Natalie,

Yes, tolerances do vary but Tane's situation - significant weight loss, crest gone, back in light work - is very different from Carlye's.

 There is no valid reason not to feed beet pulp. It has helped save the lives of countless horses.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Lorna Cane
 

Hi Natalie,

Soy hull pellets are available. That's the hulls, and not a problem for our horses.I've never known a horse to refuse these.
I just add water to moisten.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Susan
 

Can someone remind me why soyabean meal is bad? According to this:
https://www.feedipedia.org/node/674
it's a bit high in sugar, but if you're feeding a small amount (say 100g) as carrier would the amount of sugar be too much?

--
Susan in BC 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Susan%20and%20Copper%20and%20Ella


Portagecreek
 

Absolutely - I did not have all the details on Carlye's situation and should not have made a very generalized comment. Tane in his recovered state does well on oats. I choose not to feed beet pulp not because of it's nutritional abilities, but because of my personal concerns with it being farmed with glyphosate and arsen levels.

--
Natalie

New Brunswick, Canada

2019

Case History: Tane's case history

Photos: Tane's photos


Portagecreek
 

Lorna it's just my personal preference to avoid soy altogether due to phytoestrogens. Certainly the hull itself is likely to have a lower phytoestrogen content compared to the whole soybean, but still a concern for me. I was just stating a point of interest that it's pretty near impossible in my area to find any horse feed without soy in it. just my personal choice, and we are fortunate to grow and harvest our own oats and know exactly what goes into them.

Natalie

New Brunswick, Canada

2019

Case History: Tane's case history

Photos: Tane's photos


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Susan,

There is some emerging evidence that high protein can trigger an exaggerated insulin release. Limits are unclear at the moment. We have a researcher scheduled for the next conference to discuss this.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Not trying to be argumentative here, but both oats and barley contain the same type of phytoestrogens as flaxseed - lignans.  There has never been an excess estrogenic effect linked to any of those foods in any species. The phytoestrogens are believed to be part of the reason whole grains are so healthful.

Soybean hulls have 1/4 the phytestrogen content of whole beans.

 As for beet pulp:

https://dl.uswr.ac.ir/bitstream/Hannan/61483/1/2019%20JoAFC%20Volume%2067%20Issue%207%20February%20%286%29.pdf

The residue in beet pulp is 200 times less than the allowable threshold at 102 pg/g.  A pg is 0.000000000000001 kg, an almost infinitesimally small amount that most assays couldn't even detect. There's probably more in your water.

With the exception of an incident in the EU where beet pulp with high arsenic originating in Austria, I am unaware of any data showing high arsenic in beet pulp, https://edepot.wur.nl/416680 ,
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Susan,

 If you  look at sugar + starch on the feedipedia page, it's over 17 %.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Carlye
 

Thank you Dr. Kellon.

I actually haven't tried anything else, and didn't even register hay cubes.  What exactly are ODTB cubes?  The vet is coming out to retest her ACTH levels on the 8th and we will be doing the insulin test then, so we will have more information.

--
Carlye
Ontario, 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jolene 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=256885


Carlye
 

Never mind, I found the Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance cubes.  The company my husband works for may even be a dealer.  Convenient!

Thank you all for your input!
--
Carlye
Ontario, 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jolene 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=256885


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Carlye,

Make sure you get the Timothy Balanced Cubes. They also have straight timothy cubes that may be too high in sugar/starch.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Portagecreek
 

Thank you for that info. Dr. Kellon! I always welcome new information to take away.
--
Natalie

New Brunswick, Canada

2019

Case History: Tane's case history

Photos: Tane's photos