Topics

Winter Laminitis and prevention


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Hi all, 

I will preface this by saying I am a little paranoid because I never want Vinnie to have to go through whst he endured the last 18 months. So I may sound a little crazy but I am going to ask.... I have been reading about booting/leg covers to prevent winter laminitis due to temperature.  We are in Northern Cal, and we have been in the high 70' s during the day and then dropping to just above 40 at night. Vinnie is in a box stall with padded shavings and has access to a 24x24 paddock.. would it be premature to boot and put leg covers on now?  Considering all we have been through am I being overly unnecessarily cautious? Is there any harm booting and using back on track quick wraps as shipping like boots to keep legs and feet warm?

Thx Nancy 
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


LJ Friedman
 

I used fleeced lined shipping boots when jesse was using clouds for laminitis. when he improved, i used the fleece lined boots alone. parts of ca, where I am, have lows of 30 degrees very often.  question to dr kellon: Would  Invokana protect against cold-weather induced  laminitis? I didn’t boot Jesse last winter because of the Invokana protection??? .
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Nancy,

There's no down side but might not be necessary yet.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Bobbie Day
 

Nancy
Just my two cents but anytime we get under the freezing Mark I dig out my winter accessories for Desi. She’s in socks anytime her boots are on but this last week we went from 80’s to 7 degrees with a bad chill and got four inches of snow!
So right now she’s in heavy socks, (just replaced her whinnies ) with extra in her boots (diaper) and her warm leg wraps. I am not taking any chances. Did well last year with this and we’ve been getting really cold for us.
Geeez this weather !
There’s a lot of info on this subject.


--
Bobbie and Desi
NRC March 2020
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 


Jackie W
 

My mare Megan seems to generally have pretty poor circulation in her hooves (I don't know if there's some permanent damage or I just can't get IR down enough), and it seems to help with morning gimpyness if I put her shipping boots on any time the temp dips below 50 at night and sometimes add her hoof boots, too. I also have her on Jiaogulan pretty much year round now. I'm not familiar with back on track wraps; I use the somewhat loose quilted style wraps. I live in central FL.
--
Jackie and Megan
Palm Bay, FL
Joined March 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jackie%20and%20Megan


cathyjomitchell
 


-- I found the Back on Track boots and bell boots to be helpful and I'm in Minnesota.  And you could feel the warmth under the wraps if you took them off.
Cathy and Natalie (Morgan)
joined 2008


jessica skene
 

I start to dress my mare when temperature turn around 0c as soon as there is minus temp I put leg warmer.

We still have so much mud, I have trouble putting boots on a this time... too wet, too muddy, everything is gettin damped, so at the end, her feet are just bathing in cold water.... so boots on make no difference. For now, leg warmer seem to be enough, her feet are not cold at night when she gets in. they have a nice layer of hay around the round bale so I think it helps to keep her feet warm with the leg warmer.

 

For now this is my protocol

I started to add the arginin as soon as temperature were around 5c
I also give more jiaogulan (1/3 more than in summer)
Leg warmer around 0c and under
I also blanket
Rain blanket when the rain is under 10c and over 0c
Light weight rug from 0c to -20c
Heavy Weight from -21c to -40c
A friend of mine is using only BOT (back on track) quick wrap and no boots and her mare is good with that! I will try with mine, BOT quick wrap + BOT bell boots and see if I can let her without boots. I hate what being always booted does to her feets. If she is getting tender I will boot. I will also look if I can boot only at a certain minus temperature and not a some! I test.

But for now, with arginin et jiaogulan in winter dose, her gums are bright pink and her feets are warm with only leg warmer and blanket, so I will continue to monitor and see
I understand you being paranoiac... I can just feel you!! Geez I am too ahah

--
Jessica Skene  - Abitibi, Québec, Canada
Sonara => Canadian X QH mare , 14 years old, historic of founder and Laminitis, IR / EMS

october 2017

Link to case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jessica%20Skene%20and%20Sonara/SonaraCaseHistory2019.pdf
Link to album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=10295&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Link to hay analysis: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jessica%20Skene%20and%20Sonara/analysedefoin.pdf


Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Thank you all for the great ideas. I feel a little ridiculous when you all are dealing with snow and Temps much lower than we are having here, but it is good to know that keeping feet warm with supplementation of Jiaogulin is successful. 
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


NinaJW
 


-- Bobby, can you tell me what kind of socks you use? Boots? Do you buy a bigger boot than you would without the socks..etc ? This will be my first winter with PPID and I watched one person loose her PPID horse to the winter at our boarding farm. I don’t want to miss anything with Jadon. Thanks 
Nina and Jadon
Kentucky 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nina%20and%20Jadon

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=244202


jessica skene
 

Please don't be! it's only showing how much you care for your horse! 
--
Jessica Skene  - Abitibi, Québec, Canada
Sonara => Canadian X QH mare , 14 years old, historic of founder and Laminitis, IR / EMS

october 2017

Link to case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jessica%20Skene%20and%20Sonara/SonaraCaseHistory2019.pdf
Link to album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=10295&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Link to hay analysis: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jessica%20Skene%20and%20Sonara/analysedefoin.pdf


Bobbie Day
 


Hi Nina,
it had never ever occurred to me either until studying Dr.K and reading the proceedings. I’ll find those articles and msg you privately if that’s ok?
Her winter boots are actually Soft rides, we bought them when we started this journey so because of the trimming schedule they are a size too large. She right now is in Equine Fusions which are much lighter. She has probably six pairs of boots but those are the ones we use on a regular basis.
Regardless she’s always in socks with a wool pad (I buy bulk from Amazon and cut) winter socks are thick wool socks or whiney socks found here https://soxforhorses.com/, i
I actually cut them in half because she’s only about twelve hands. So she has the wool padding, her very warm socks, and fleece shipping boots. She did really well last year. I would however if you have snow or rain tape the openings with duct tape to keep out the wet. I just give it a few good wraps and it also helps them from slipping. I’m excited to try the cabin socks though.

Bobbie and Desi
NRC March 2020
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Nina,

Winter laminitis is due to cold temperatures (40's and lower) causing circulation issues in feet that have previous damage to the blood vessels. It is a different problem than laminitis brought on by elevated ACTH due to uncontrolled PPID.

Have you been able to get Jadon's ACTH retested since the first time? You had mentioned that his pergolide (Prascend) dose was raised to 1.5mg - was this because his ACTH came back as still being elevated on 1mg of pergolide? Keeping the feet warm won't help if the problem is that the ACTH isn't being controlled.

Has Jadon ever had laminitis? If not, the good news is that it is unlikely that he will have any issues from the colder weather. Has his trim been corrected since the last radiographs were taken? adding current hoof photos would help us to help you make sure the trim is optimal for him.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

You don't necessarily have to have irreversible vascular damage to have  cold induced pain.  Some affected horses have never even had an obvious acute laminitis episode. Hyperinsulinemia causes levels of the potent vasoconstrictor endothelin-1 to rise. That coupled with cold induced vasoconstriction is probably the issue although we can't rule out a contribution from cold induced hormonal changes as well.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


NinaJW
 

Hi Lavinia,

I'm having him re tested this week for all labs plus ACTH. He has never (thank God) had laminitis. I just want to keep it that way. He’s 22 and I am leaning toward the herb that some folks here use for increased circulation. I did buy fleece lined leg covers and if I’m lucky that and the right blanket will hopefully work. I had him in boots when his soles were too thin and it did not go smoothly! He HATED them and tried kicking everything to get them off. I doubt he’ll love the leg wraps much more but I’ll give it a go.
I will update all his labs and supplements this month when I get them all figured out. Thanks for asking :)
--
Nina and Jadon
Kentucky 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nina%20and%20Jadon

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=244202