Winter Laminitis flare up


practicalmagic2001@...
 

This is my first post, and i'm glad i found this group.

My 17 year old pony mare was imported from Texas to Canada in November and naturally, had not experienced cold and ice conditions.
She became progressively lamer over the winter and I assumed that it was ice bruising on her soles. X-rays showed extreme rotation in the front feet
and we are agressively trimming her toes every 4 weeks. I will be having her tested for Cushings as well. I am already thinking about winter 
and have ordered pony sized shipping boots and hoof boots for her. Does anyone else have experience trying to keep legs and hooves
warm and circulation happening? Luckily , she doesn't mind being in a stall and alone, so on frigid days, she can stay inside. 

Admins, please help if I needed to add photos and case history #oldpeopleproblems
--
Donna
Ontario, canada


Sherry Morse
 

Hello Donna,






Sherry Morse
 

Hi Donna,

Thanks for uploading your Case History (https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Donna%20and%20Cherubs%20Dolly%20Madison) and the one xray and photo (https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265892).  I know the x-ray is from April and you said that there have been aggressive trims ongoing since then which is good because the x-ray shows an extremely long toe as well as a ski tip on the coffin bone - which indicates this has been a long term problem for Dolly.  Looking at the picture you posted she has a pretty obvious crest so I would treat her as IR - meaning no grass access and soaking her hay until you can get it tested.

Now as far as the case history - do you have any idea what Dolly's current weight is?  It's hard to judge from the picture but aside from the crest she doesn't look terribly overweight which is good.  However, we recommend that IR horses eat no more than 2% of their body weight in hay plus any concentrates TOTAL per day.  For Dolly that would be no more than 10lbs per day, but according to your case history she's eating more than that now.  Is that amount a guess or are you actually weighing what she eats each day now?

Neither of the Purina products is a suitable feed for an IR horse (more on that here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/226908 and in the thread here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/topic/78443956#257893).  Ideally you would replace that grain with rinse/soaked/rinsed beet pulp or another safe carrier and just use the absolute minimum to get her minerals into her.

We also do not recommend using Himalayan salt as the color comes from impurities such as iron which are also no good for an IR horse.

In your case history you also indicated Dolly is in foal.  That adds a whole other element of management challenge to taking care of her.  What stage of pregnancy is she in currently?




practicalmagic2001@...
 

Thanks Sherry!

This is a lot to 'unpack' and it looks as if I have some reading to do. I'm not actually weighing her hay- so the luggage scales will go to the barn tonight and I'll weigh a hay net. She gets 4 flakes of grass hay, and I estimated 3 lbs per flake.
She's about 6 weeks in foal, and this is her 7th.
She wears Easyboots 24/7, they get taken off for cleaning and for oiling of feet. She's in at night on deep bedding with thick mats underneath, and in a dirt round pen in the day. I will look into a feed change for concentrates. 

Any advise -anyone- for keeping legs and feet warm in winter?

Donna
--
Donna
Ontario, Canada
Joined Jul 2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Donna%20and%20Cherubs%20Dolly%20Madison
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265892 




Lorna Cane
 

Hi Donna,

If you do an archive search for 'warm legs winter' or 'winter laminitis' you'll find lots of good ideas about keeping legs and hooves warm.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


 

Hi Donna,

Welcome to the ECIR group!  I wanted to clarify some terminology for you so that it doesn’t cause confusion down the road.  Metabolic laminitis can happen any time of year.  If anything, it can be more apparent in fall, as the body makes preparations for winter.

‘Winter laminitis’, as we refer to it, is not technically laminitis but rather is a cold related circulatory response in a horse which has been previously laminitic.  It’s apparently extremely painful but does not cause rotation.  It can be prevented or alleviated by keeping the feet, legs and even the body warm in cold weather.  If your pony has ever been laminitic, it is not a given that she will suffer from winter laminitis.  I live not far south of the Canadian border, have had laminitis in one of my ponies but she has never appeared to experience winter laminitis.  I do keep her blanketed in winter as she is on the thin side.

Reading through this thread, it seems that she had issues with laminitis in Texas which were most likely not addressed in her care.  The fact that she got worse during the cold winter may mean that she also had winter laminitis but you will not be able to completely relieve her discomfort without addressing her diagnosis, diet and trim.  While you’re collecting those warm items you will want to have handy come December, I’d also get her blood tested promptly as well as her hay to get started on diagnosis and diet.  Fortunately, Dr. Kellon is available to address any specific concerns related to pregnancy.
--

Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


practicalmagic2001@...
 

Thanks for the insight, Martha - this all makes sense!

I took a hay sample for testing last night, and my vet wants to test her for Cushings ( likely it is) in the fall for more reliable results. In the mean time, we treat her 
as if she does have Cushings , except we won't medicate until we have a dx. I'm incouraged that she caught first time with the stallion. maybe the Cushings isn't too advanced. The boots we have are SoftRide comfort boots ( I had to look it up, I keep getting it wrong) and they are making a huge difference. 

4 week trims seem to be mandatory- 5 weeks and she's sore again. 

Next winter, she will have boots and leg warmers, and she'll stay in when it's really cold.

--
Donna
Ontario, Canada
Joined Jul 2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Donna%20and%20Cherubs%20Dolly%20Madison
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265892 




Sherry Morse
 

Hi Donna,

Be aware that testing for PPID during the seasonal rise (fall) will not give you a more reliable result.  If she is actually PPID the time to find out is now, prior to the start of the rise otherwise you'll be 'chasing the rise' and trying to medicate for an already elevated ACTH level.  As far as being bred - she's more in danger from being IR than PPID.



practicalmagic2001@...
 

I have added my hay analysis to my case history file , I hope this is correct protocol. WSC is 11.ESC is 9.2 
I'm thinking WSC should be 10 or less?
--
Donna
Ontario, Canada
Joined Jul 2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Donna%20and%20Cherubs%20Dolly%20Madison
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265892 




Sherry Morse
 

Hi Donna,

I don't see a hay analysis posted in your Case History folder but we look for ESC+starch to be under 10%.  Some horses can't handle even that amount and as Dolly is still lame she may be one of them so I would definitely be soaking this hay as per the emergency diet guidelines to see if that helps along with all the other diet changes.